The primary job of a parent is to prepare their children for how the world really works. We teach and train our children from childhood the knowledge and skills necessary to become independent adults, self-sufficient and upstanding members of society.
In the real world, you don’t always get what you want.
Many young adults today have unrealistic expectations when they initially go out on their own. Many feel they are entitled to immediately live a middle-class life style (or better), because that’s what they’re used to, and because they haven’t learned that there is a difference between helping and enabling.
They weren’t born, or were very young children, during the years their parents struggled to make ends meet, pay their bills (and on time), having to eat hot dogs and beans instead of steak dinners, struggling to live within their means.
Many young adults are living at home with their parents, not out of true need, but out of what I refer to as the “Whine Factor.” They whine about the costs of housing, and how they just “couldn’t possibly live in a tiny little apartment, in a sub-standard neighborhood.” They whine about having to live on red beans and rice, ramen noodles, or macaroni and cheese, because their current salary doesn’t allow for the kinds of meals they were used to at their parents home. (Someone get me a tissue…..snif)
What happened to teaching our children how the Real World is?! That in order to have the things you want, you have to work very hard. That you have to perhaps work two jobs instead of one, all the while going to college? Many young adults, some who now have children of their own, believe their parents somehow “owe them” financial assistance, to rescue them from the burden of their own poor money-management habits! What?! Excuse ME…..?!
Let me see if I get this right. Young adults, married or living together, working full-time jobs, with or without a child to support, choose to spend their money frivolously rather than ensuring they are living within their means, and when they run into financial trouble and can’t pay their bills, the parents OWE it to their children to rescue them?! Sometimes even expected to “help” many, many times over? Huh?! Parents, listen very carefully: There is a big difference between helping and enabling adult children, and if you don’t figure it out now and put an immediate stop to the enabling, it will never end.
Maybe I’m being a little too tough. Naw, I don’t think so. I’m of the thinking that if my grown, adult children, CHOOSE to spend their money on things they “want” rather than their “needs” (like a place to live, utilities, food, etc.., like the rest of us do) and their electric gets shut off because of non-payment? Ok! So their food goes bad and they have to throw it away. Maybe, just maybe, it’s more of a “help” to allow them to experience the consequences of their own poor choices, in order to learn the valuable lessons needed to be grown, independent ADULTS.
Rescuing them from their choices and subsequent consequences, giving them money as a fix to their immediate self-made problem, allowing them to move back in with their parents, this is called “help”? I think it’s actually enabling our young adult children rather than help, preventing them from the realities of the real world. In the real world, you work long and hard for the things you need and want. That’s the only way to truly appreciate what you have, when you’ve worked your butt off for it all on your own.
A Sense of Entitlement
Children Who Refuse To Grow Up
Helping and Enabling – Is There A Difference?
Are You An Enabler? Identifying Early Warning Signs of Enabling Behaviors
How to Stop Enabling: When Our Grown Children Disappoint Us
Support Groups for Parents with Grown Adult Children Living at Home with Parents
Setting Boundaries With Your Adult Children As long as we continue to keep enabling our adult children, they will continue to deny they have any problems, since most of their problems are being “solved” by those around him. Only when our adult children are forced to face the consequences of their own actions—their own choices—will it finally begin to sink in how deep their patterns of dependence and avoidance have become. And only then will we as parents be able to take the next step to real healing, forever ending our enabling habits and behaviors.
Lin :: Amen!!! Great blog…
Yoo’r a rawwwk’n blogger fersure!!
(pleeze excuse my debauched scribes, iz juz me…)
~julian
I can completely agree and disagree with everything you say.
I am 21 years old and after living on my own for 2 years I moved back in with my parents.
I was just barely managing to get by, paying tuition, rent, utilities, car insurance and all the extra little things that come with post secondary education.
I never expected, or asked my parents for help, financial or otherwise. I rarely went out. I stuck to the budget I had created for myself but in the end I found myself pregnant with only half my education completed, leaving me no means to actually get my career started and support myself and a child.
If it was just me, I would probably still be living in my apartment in the middle of nowhere outside of North Bay, doing the same thing I was before. Rare nights at the bar, no meals out etc etc.
But I never would have survived all of that with the added cost of diapers and all the other baby necessities. My boyfriend of 4 years had left me for another woman months before I found out I was pregnant and after I told him he was nowhere to be found, so there’s no child support either.
I’m sorry, I didn’t mean to ramble on like this.
I guess what I was trying to say is that I think everything you say is completely valid but there’s always an exception to every rule.
Yes, I did move back in with my parents, but other than that I’m self sufficient and I don’t rely on them. On top of that I contribute to the household, keeping up my share of the housework and financially.
Great post
Mommy2jl, thank you for your comment. I can empathize with your situation, knowing it can be very difficult to attend school to complete your education, maintain a job and care for a child as a single parent.
I do believe there are situations that occur that may require a return to the parents home, but I also believe it needs to be temporary, with a time limit carved in stone.
Often adult children who return home to live with their parents soon find themselves feeling very “comfortable” not having the worry and stress of providing for themselves (and their chidren) that they experienced while living on their own. Becoming too comfortable in the family home tends to lead to taking this temporary help for granted.
Whatever the situation is that causes adult children to move back in with their parents, it is the responsibility of the adult children to diligently and continuously work towards a quick resolution and return to their independent lives, living on their own.
It is the responsibility of the parents to see to it that this occurs as expediently as possible, and if necessary, exercise tough love in order for their adult children to not become complacent and lazy in these matters.
Agreed!
I have no desire to be my 40 year old co-worker, who also lives with his parents :S yeck. lol
Personally, I can’t imagine ever being so comfortable that I wouldn’t be motivated to leave. I miss my independance and privacy too much lol.
It’s been nice for the past 4 months but I’m already itching for my own place and my own space.
I know people from high school and some from college that moved back in with their parents after they finished their degrees and have started their careers and have no intention to leave any time soon.
I would hope that if I was in that situation my parents would take it upon themselves to make sure it didn’t stay that way.
You can’t learn to be an adult and make adult decision if you aren’t living like one and given the chance to do so.
You’re right, there has to be a limit. There’s a fine line between getting on your feet and using your parents.
Hey, not all of us are like that. It was most logical to go back home between years of school at first – dorms are cheaper than apartments, after all – but it was infuriating each and every single time. I love my parents dearly, but I don’t want to live with them! By the time I got an offer to room with an already graduated student, I was so excited to move out I would have said yes if she’d been certifiably insane. (Thankfully she’s not…)
But then, my mom always said if they aren’t ecstatic to leave, you raised them wrong. I would be inclined to agree, and plan on making darn sure of the same, when my kids come around.
Anyway, I know a few people that are like that – it’s so sad. They think their mom or dad is their best friend in the whole world, and they’re usually spoiled rotten!
Moved Out, thank you for expressing your point of view. While it is difficult for young adult to get a start in the world, with college courses and working full time just to eat, it is my opinion that it is vitally important for these young ones to experience exactly that. To learn the struggle of making their way in the world, learning to make adult choices of money management etc in order to provide for themselves, is the best thing that can happen. Too many parents have forgotten the benefit of saying no, and meaning it.
I know of one person who is 45 years old and when to college for six years until they told him to pick a major and leave. He has never lived with anyone but his mother or father.
His brother kicked him out of his mother’s house because he owned the house, so he went to live with his father, who is now calling my boyfreind asking if he can come and stay at MY HOUSE. I think not.
I told the father to kick him out so he can find his own place. He is only 45, I know it will be rough! His parents are 80 and 75.
That is so sad. But I’ve heard stories similar to that and it makes me cringe. Thank you for sharing this story.
So many Boomer parents had/have the misguided notion that their job is to make their kids’ lives easy and that’s resulted in a generation of self-entitled slackers who expect the world on a plate yet have no work ethic.
My wife & I are only just now a couple of months away from our first (adopted) child when many of our friends have kids in high school and we’ve been keenly observing these kids to get a solid idea of some parenting traps to avoid. We attended a “Parenting with Love & Logic” class last year that really resonated with us.
That course emphasized the value of letting children learn about the consequences of their actions when the price is trivial – like a toy that’s broken due to neglect (and is not replaced) – rather than let kids have to learn about this when it becomes much more costly (in every sense) to do so – like a totalled car due to neglectful driving habits.
But why should kids have to struggle? In other societies It’s perfectly acceptable to live with your parents. Look at India… you live with your parents until they die! We’re meant to take care of each other.. that’s part of being human. I think it’s very American to be so independent and that’s part of what’s wrong with the US.
Heather, I think you entirely missed the point of this post. I don’t believe it’s a matter of being American or not. It’s about raising children to become mature adults rather than dependent adults still walking around with the umbilical cord still attached.
The point is not “living as a village” and taking care of each other, it’s about mooching off the parents. A young adult who has been laid off from a job without any warning will have very little if any savings top fall back on, and will nedd help from friends/family to get by while looking for a new job. A young adult who is working full time and has the means to live on a budget and not need help – yet chooses to spend money on eating out every day, movies and video games, while expecting mom and dad to keep the necessities of life paid up is a completely different story.
It’s not that Americans have an erroneous independent streak. It’s that Americans ( as well as other well-off countries) have an over-abundance of temptations at our fingertips. Those families in India don’t have a Starbucks on every corner, Gamestop, movie theatres every direction you look. Ads telling them they each need their own car – and the car should display personality and status. It’s not only about teaching our children how to not need us – it’s about teaching our children that they aren’t the clothes they wear, the car they drive or house/neighborhood they live in. If they realize they can be themselves no matter what they wear, what they drive or where they live, then hopefully those temptations are at least lessened.
Huper, very well said. I couldn’t have said it better.
I have a stepson who is divorced with two teen sons and he has been an alcoholic and drug addict and has used his mother for money and to fix his mistakes and legal problems. This is enabling and is wrong. When an adult child knows better and completely messes up their lives, they should live with the consequences, unless they are in a treatment program or in some way giving back for the pain they have caused others. He, instead, keeps using and abusing his enablers. So much for the India plan in this particular case. As Dr. Phil says, “Kick em out!”
Tom, I couldn’t agree with you more. The more that parents “rescue” their adult children from the consequences of their own choices, parents are doing more harm than good. And, the “children” keep coming back for more. And more.
I have two adult children, one is 26 and one 20. Neither are living with me, the 20 yr old is at their grandparent’s home, and the 26 yr old is at their pastor’s home. It’s a long story, but drugs have to do with why neither are living with me (their drug use/stealing from me and my mother). My problem is, one is turning their life around, the other says they are trying. At the current time, neither are working, but looking for jobs. One has a savings account, that is slowly being depleted, the other has no money. I have helped the one that is turning their life around by paying for half her car, and paying for car insurance and court payments recently(which I explained in detail that this was a loan because I wasn’t going to pay court fees for her). What bothers me is that she acts like she is able to ‘chose’ and be ‘picky’ about where she wants to work. I have worked at places that people should not have to work, but it paid the bills since I was a single mother for over 25 years. I did what I had to do to pay the bills (ie: working in a machine shop).
The other child is at their grandparents, and the grandmother is a huge enabler. Nothing this child does is wrong, even though he has pawned some of her family heirloom rings from deceased siblings, and stolen pills from the grandfather. The grandmother says I’m too hard on him because I don’t believe half of what he says. My dilima is that I don’t know what’s right and wrong anymore. I feel they put me in the situation that I have to help, if I don’t, my mother does, and it’s been like this for close to 2 years.
Hi Sharon,
I’ve heard stories similar to yours many times, and I’m so sorry it has obviously been very difficult for you.
Anyone, including adult children, that have the idea that they can “choose” how help should/must be given, or choose where they will or will not work, are controlling the parent through manipulation. Any responsible parent understands that in order to pay the bills and keep food on the table, we do what we have to do even if it means doing menial jobs. You are spot on there.
Ask yourself this question: How will my child/children learn to do for themselves if I continue to do for them? Is the help I am providing really helping them, or am I keeping them from learning life’s hard lessons?
Children, especially adult children, often have amazing methods to manipulate parents into giving and giving and giving and giving, until parents are in financial ruin.
I always ask parents with stories similar to yours, “If the worst scenario were to happen, what then”? If you completely stop helping, stop giving monetary assistance of any kind, what will happen to your children? Will they starve? No. Will they end up living on the streets as a bum? No.
More often than not, children left to “hit rock bottom” often find themselves learning the hard life lesson that as adults, they must be responsible and get and maintain a job in order to take care of themselves.
Sharon, I would highly recommend that you completely stop any and all financial assistance immediately. You would be helping them more by allowing them to deal with the consequences of their own choices, perhaps even “hitting rock bottom”, and realize they cannot USE you anymore for their own selfish motives.
You cannot control what your mom does, but you can control what you do, and you have the power to stop what is happening to you. Two years is a long time shelling out money to able bodied adult children, far too long actually.
You must decide whether the help you are providing is really helping them, or if it’s working out more as a hindering their growth. Good luck.
it’s not about the temptations of the western world that’s the problem, you will find that the adults in India (mentioned by Heather) who live with their parents are often dependent on them their whole lives. Yes, I do think Americans can learn about caring for elders, but at the same timethose Indian adult kids could learn about thinking and acting for themselves. The wealthy ones do have all the temptations of the western world, and use them too, thinking they are entitled to it because they were born on the right side of the tracks. I should know, I was one of them and still trying to overcome dependency on my parents money, because we were not brought up to think for ourselves, we were told our parents would buy everything and take care of everything so we beleived it was our right. But it does nothing for one’s self esteem, and it makes you doubt how to do things and be self suffiicient.
My 31 year old brother in law still lives at home because he insists (for the past 3 years), he is going back to school (mind you, he has a masters and works a mediocre job for mediocre pay – way below his abilities) and for fear of having “bills”. Doesn’t everyone in the real world have bills?
My 28 year old brother in law who is married and living “on his own” with his wife is expecting a child soon. Until recently, he has access to a credit card that he continually abused to the tune of $1k per month or better and guess who picked up the bill? Mommy and Daddy, who are both retired. Supposedly, the card has been cut off, but now he complains about having no money. Just wait until that baby arrives!
Both he and his wife work and should be able to live a normal middle-class lifestyle, however have become accostomed to having their wants met. Hell, who wouldn’t love access to a credit card you never received the bills for? Laptops, TV’s, cell phones, satellite radio, thousands of DVD’s, trips, etc. are all theirs at the cost of my in-laws. If I was the parents, I would say, “Suck it up”. Then again, if I were the parents, it wouldn’t have gotten to this point! Ridiculous!
I am definitely going to instill a work ethic in my children, just like my parents did with me. I worked for everything. Clothes, cars, insurance, college and still do work to pay my mortgage, grocery bills, etc and feel as though I am better off for it.
I’m pretty sure my in laws are still helping them out, maybe not by giving them free reign of the credit card, but I’m pretty sure they are in some way. Someday, my in laws will not be here and the enabling will end there because I will not be picking up the pieces for them.
Fed Up, BRAVO!
Good for you! I love getting these type messages where people are actually “getting it” and able to see for themselves what is going on around them.
Bravo to you for standing on your own feet and being independent and taking care of your own needs as a grown up.
If parents would only WAKE UP and see what is really going on, and take steps to put a stop to the enabling, our society might not be filled so many slackers.
Good for you!
What do you do when your child punishes you with not being allowed to see the grandchildren when you finally say no..I am so sad and hurt by my daughter’s behavior towards me and she always tells me I owe her
Gmom, wow that’s got to be really painful for you for your daughter to use her child as a weapon over you, to try to manipulate and control you.
Your daughter is obviously grown, or at least old enough that she has a child.
While you cannot change HER behavior towards you, nor force her to allow you to see your grandchild, you can and NEED to assert yourself and not allow her to control you. (See my article on Assertiveness on the Home page).
The harder she works to manipulate and control you, telling you that you OWE her and keeping your grandchild from you, the more assertive you must become.
Remember too, there are laws that protect the rights and interests of grandparents. Lawmakers and judges do not take kindly to people who prevent grandparents from seeing their grandchildren. Hopefully, it would not come to the point where getting a lawyer is necessary, but it’s definitely an option you may have to consider.
Do NOT give in to your daughter’s manipulative and controlling behaviors, regardless of how painful and hurtful it may be.
Each and every time you give in only makes matters worse, and may cause you to find yourself in a situation (like many other parents) who end up going BROKE due to giving in to children’s demands.
Take a look at my Assertiveness article on the home page, and let me know what you think. Looking forward to hearing from you again.
This is such a timely topic for me as my middle daughter just turned 18 and I have no idea how to “parent” her anymore. Shes a great kid – gifted, talented, no real trouble thus far – but her senior year of high school has been hell! At this point she is threatening to drop out and I know that I am powerless to stop her. I am devastated but don’t know what to do at this point, how much impact do I have?
My eldest on the other hand is 23 years old, graduating with her BA in a few months, living on her own for 2 years now, managing her own bills, etc. w/o assistance from me, working and managing school, and has recently gotten engaged to a wonderful young man. She was so easy, left me unprepared for the next ones!
Any thoughts?
Every child is different. Have you ever thought of asking your middle daughter how come she is so angry? There is obviously some need that is not being met and she doesn’t know what to do about it or how to communicate it. Maybe she is gifted in a different way to your eldest and doesn’t want to be in her shadow? Ask her what she wants.
Confused mom, I apologize for the delay in approving your comment and responding.
Ahh, the magic year of turning 18; kids often get the idea that turning 18 is their first chance to really stand up and say “I don’t have to listen to you anymore” or, “you can’t make me!”.
Unfortunately, being 18 does allows your daughter the choice to drop out of high school, although you and I both know it would be a huge mistake. “How much impact do I have”? A lot more than you may believe right now.
Regardless of how much she may be flexing her angst muscle right now, children want and need their parents input, even when they claim they don’t.
Not knowing specifically why she’s threatening to quit school makes it difficult for me to direct you in any particular way. Has she explained her reasons for wanting to quit school?
One of my sons once pulled this on me a few years ago, and after calmly and respectfully (assertively) drawing him out with questions as to why he was feeling like quitting (keeping quiet to listen intently), I came to understand he was struggling with a couple of his classes and grades and were able to find a solution.
I would suggest starting with creating an opportunity for you and your daughter to have a private, calm and mutually respectful conversation, where you do most of the listening initally.
Draw her out with assertive questions like:
“I want to understand where you’re coming from about wanting to quit school, would you please explain to me”?
“I need to believe that you understand how important it is to finish and graduate from high school, and that you’ll make the choice not to quit”.
Your tone of voice, body language etc will have great impact on the outcome of the conversation. After reading the article on assertiveness, and having the talk with your daughter, I hope you will return and let me know the outcome. Even if she actually does quit school, it’s not the end of the world, as many kids who’ve done so end up returning and getting their diploma. Good luck!
SP, thank you for your input. I was still typing my response when yours came through. Thanks!
Thank you for the input!
Fortunately we have very open communication, even when we don’t always like or agree with what each other has to say..grin…we have been in counseling for the past few months and have a handle on the issues but she is still very frustrated with school and, unfortunately, tends to be rather impulsive with her decisions. I only hope that she doesn’t make a huge mistake that will negatively impact her life for years to come but also realize that as much as I can love, talk, advise, etc., ultimately it is her life and up to her. sigh. Very difficult for a highly-involved mom like me.
On a positive note, she has been accepted to several local colleges so, yes, I guess you are right, Lin, it won’t be the end of the world if she quits..she isn’t talking about slacking off and giving up her college education, she is just so ready to get out of high school..in her words, she is “over it.” I can’t say that I blame her in that regard.
Good for you! It’s true, it is very difficult and downright painful sometimes to see our children make mistakes that can greatly affect their lives.
Sometimes we have to just step back and allow them (especially adult children) to learn the hard lessons of making poor choices, and hopefully they will learn from it and not continue on the same path.
If I were you, I would encourage her and tell her you are proud of her and she is very talented. That way she is less likely to rebel and make the best decision for herself.
Parents often think they know best due to having more life experience, but unfortunately this is not always the case as what is best for one person is not necessarily so for another, even if they are closely related people.
That’s true SP, parents have to be willing to try a variety of things, as what may work for one may not work for another. Good tip!
Our son moved out 1 1/2 years ago. He moved in with his girlfriends parents. When he lived home he went to college and because he was acting financially RECKLESS, we asked him to leave. We never charged him rent and we paid all his college expenses. He wanted us to pay his insurance and cell phone. We said NO. He left and continued to be reckless. He works full time now and 5 credit cards are calling and threatening to take him to court. He needs to get organized and pay them sensibly but he just does not. We just want to save him thousands in late fees by helping him but it never seems to help. He owes us over 8k and we just lent him another 4k but he says taxes will pay us back. He know money is not an issue for us. We feel bad that he has so many charges that he just can’t keep up. We want to take over his bills and take his pay and give him ample to survive. He probably won’t agree. At what point do you give up. He just landed a great job paying over 50k so he should be able to do it. He pays no rent where he is and he is just not growing up. When his car breaks down for the last time, how does he get to the job if he can’t get credit because his score is so low. He won’t be able to get to his job and then what? He has no options to keep the job because of the distance and there is no public transportation. I always wonder if that will be just another handout when it happens. Please advice me on how to handle this . He is only 23 and I hate to give up on him.
Wish He’d Listened, this is obviously a very difficult situation for you. I completely understand the stress and strain you are under.
The hardest part of being a parent is being able to step back and allow our adult children to deal with situations they bring on themselves.
Your son is grown; at least chronologically grown. He is being irresponsible with his finances, and he owes you thousands of dollars.
The best help you can give to your grown son is NOT to help, but continue to be emotionally supportive. No more financial “help”, as things don’t change, do they? He continues to do the same things over and over.
You ask, What if? What if his car breaks down and he can’t get to work?
Being an adult, and starting to make a substantial income, that very question should be foremost on HIS mind, not yours. HE should be answering the What If questions for himself.
As long as he believes that he has what I call a “backup plan” (that being you and your money), things will not improve.
It’s not about “giving up on him”. It’s about allowing him to stand on his own two, grown feet and taking on the responsibilities (and consequences) of being an adult.
You’ve done your job. You’ve raised your son, and now he’s gone out into the world to make his life as he sees fit. The choices he makes may not be to your liking, but he still has to make his life and handle his financial choices on his own (as well as the consequences of poor money management).
That includes dealing with the creditors calling; making payment arrangements as best HE can; getting himself a lawyer if it comes down to it; ensuring the car is in good running order is HIS responsibility; whatever HE has to do to take care of his own personal choices.
Continuing to rescue him, rushing in to “save the day” does not provide your son the needed lessons of living within his means.
The next time he asks for financial help, be strong and lovingly tell him that you are unable to help him. You do not owe him any explanations as to why, but if you feel you need to say something, simply tell him that you have every trust and faith that as an adult he will find the suitable solution to his problem. Any resistance given should just be responded to by repeating the above sentence again. And again.
Whether you are in a financial situation to continue to “help” him or not is really not the point. Your money is YOUR money that you EARNED by working hard for it, just as HE needs to.
I often tell people that “Need is the best motivator“. Someone who really NEEDS something will put forth whatever energies are required in order to fill the need, whether it be food, clothing, shelter, drugs, cigarettes, etc.
NEED creates Motivation, and your son needs to experience what real need is and become motivated to handle his adult responsibilities as a grown man, and that can only happen if you stop rescuing him when he gets himself into troubling situations.
Feel free to contact me again if you wish. Good luck!
I woke this morning to find these words of wisdom. From the bottom of my heart, THANK YOU! I told my son to call a creditor that has been asking to help him lower his minimums on his cards and also to eliminate fees. For now, I offered to guide him in paying his bills with his payroll checks only until he feels he has in under control. Then he can take it over completely. I am not going to help him at all financially any longer. I told him I have faith he can get out of this mess with his more than adequate salary. You are so right in saying he will never learn until he has to depend on himself. Again, thank you for your words. It was truly a light bulb moment for me.
I’m so glad I could help you! Just be sure not to fall back into the old ways. Yeah! Good luck!
I have a major prob, i had a child who i put up for adoption 26 years ago and is now back in my life ! i’m happy as can be, but!! so far i feel he is either using me or testing me . he asked to go to his home town to meet his birth father, ok i paid for the ticket , than he asked for a visit which required another ticket with the promice to pay me back,and payed for that, now he has asked to loan him 600.00 because his car is getting reposed he’s only been in my life 3 months. i think his adopted mom did a poor job on showing him responsibility correct ? please reply back soon !!! what do i do say no and risk losing him again.
Sol, it’s wonderful to hear you have been able to reconnect with your son after so many years. But, he’s an adult, 26 years old. Even if his adopted mom didn’t teach him how to take care of himself as an independent adult, don’t feel pressured to take on the job.
Since he’s only been back in your life for 3 short months, I can’t say whether he’s using you, testing you, or simply hasn’t grown up yet.
You don’t “owe” him anything, so do not feel guilty or upset by setting boundaries on what kind and amount of help you decide to provide. If your instincts tell you he may be using you, I would pay attention to your instincts. I believe instincts tell us a lot, but many people ignore those “red flags”.
If this is a warning sign for you, simply tell him “I’m sorry, but I can’t help you this time”. And each time he asks for more money, say the same thing. Eventually he’ll figure it out, and will show you his “true colors” of what he hopes to gain from the relationship with you.
I think it’s far too soon in the reconnection phase to be giving adult children money. Listen to your instincts. They are telling you something. Good luck!
Hi Sol,
I have had some of the very same issues with my son. My blog was entitled “wish he’d listened”. Lin’s advice made sense to me. Be sure to tell him just how blessed you feel that he is in your life. Close the ” Bank of Sol” now and instead make the foundation of your relationship based on a renewed sense of trust, love, respect and honesty.
If his intentions are true, he will stick around and you will feel much better about the reunion long term.
I had many problems with my son and lately I have been there to councel and assist in helping him understanding his budget. I believe he is learning to help himself. I will always be his mother but he needs to grow up. You son needs the same. Good luck and thank you again Lin. Things are moving along beautifully!
Debbie, thank you for contributing your comments to Sol. I have another post on enabling about to publish on Thursday of this week entitled How To Stop Enabling, so stay tuned for that one.
This article really hits home with me.
I am the mother of two grown children. My oldest finished college, is married and in the armed services, and doing well. My youngest however, is a different story.
Part of the problem is my spouse. Don’t get me wrong- he is a wonderful person, but is a pure softy and was never the disciplinarian. My husband has always coddled him and made excuses for his lack of responsibility. From 1st grade forward, we were called to school to meet with teachers who expressed concern about a lack of work ethic and lack of responsibility. Rather than facing the problem and addressing it, my husband would often times make excuses for why our son was not performing. My son is now out of high school (FINALLY!) and at age 19 will still not seek out gainful employment. (I had to nag him to get his driver’s license at age 18.) He has held 2 or 3 menial jobs since high school but always quits with the excuse “it’s boring” or “don’t like it”. I cannot get him to do anything around the house. I find myself asking him repeatedly to do simple things like put sheets on his bed, clean up his bathroom, etc. Despite hearing me ask my son to do these things, my husband sits back and offers no support until of course, I am screaming at my son in sheer frustration.
We have been to counseling but my spouse refuses to acknowledge he is enabling my son. My son also went to counseling a few times but now refuses to go. Believe me, I am not perfect and realize I contributed to this over the years as well, especially when he was small. I did try to use “natural consequences” over the years (i.e. you forget your lunch, you get hungry, you forget your homework, you stay after school, etc.) in an attempt to make him more responsible. However this was often times undermined either by my spouse or society in general. (It seems these days a lot of people (teachers, fellow parents, etc) tend to look at using natural consequences as “too harsh”.) I grew up this way, and believe I turned out pretty well (college educated, gainfully employed and married for 24 years). Anyway, I gave him an ultimatum several weeks ago that he either gets a job or is out of the house. He missed the deadline and became even more disrespectful and is playing my husband against me.
This entire situation has placed a huge strain on my marriage, but I finally told him “today is the day- you’re out of here”. My husband’s response “where will he go?” but I feel that is for my son to work out. I realize this is harsh and it is breaking my heart, but what else can I do?
All I have ever wished for my children was that they be happy and not have to worry about how they would make their way in the world. I feel my son is no more happy about his choices and this situation than I am. He seems lost and fearful of growing up.
I apologize for this rambling blog, but I am at wit’s end and frankly heartbroken.
JMC, I understand the heartbreak. You try to do what parents are supposed to do while they’re growing up, and the other parent sabotages the efforts. I’ve been there myself.
I would suggest having your husband read these articles, read the books mentioned in the post entitled How to Stop Enabling, and really communicate with your husband what has developed over the years with your son. The longer it continues as is, the longer it will continue to go on.
As long as your son doesn’t have any emotional or psychological reasons for not being motivated to work, you really have to be tough with him. Sometimes kids can go undiagnosed for clinical depression or other medical/psychological problems, and barring anything like that, allowing him to do nothing for himself really isn’t helping him. Please do take a look at the article How to Stop Enabling, and consider getting the books I mention there, as they are a great resource for parents. Good luck!
Lin and debbie your wise word helped out alot .My long lost son has not talked to me sence i said no to him , i ask my self, now when he does decided to come around again, what do i tell him?do i remind him how hurtful it was to me that he stoped communication to the point of disconnecting his phone ! ANd how will i say no to him again if i feel it neccesary to do so?
Hi Sol, welcome back. You don’t owe him any explanation as to why you said no and why you should continue to say no. His not talking to you since saying no should reveal to you what his motives were, and they don’t sound honorable.
No, I don’t think you should remind him or even mention anything about how he’s hurt you by cutting off communication. If or when he begins to talk with you again and asks for money or financial assistance etc, simply tell him you can’t help him. Each time he asks, say the same thing, then tell him you trust he will find a solution to the money problems and do what is necessary to not let it happen anymore. You are not his personal bank or ATM machine. He HAS to learn to rely on himself, and that can only happen if his money source is cut off. Don’t give him ANY money, at all. Just say No.
Lin–this is an amazing post and one that I am printing so that I can have it for future reference. I plan to share it with my adult son who is married and out of my house and mostly out of my pocket. But occasionally he asks for financial help and —yes I read your last comment above–the next time I will just say “no”. National Bank of Mom is closed for business.
By the way, I am sending my sister a link to your blog. She has a 4 year old daughter she adopted in midlife. She can use the wisdom she’ll find here.
Karen, thank you. This is a subject I am very passionate about, getting adult children to be financially responsible for themselves.
Thank you also for telling your sister about my site. That’s a wonderful compliment, so thank you.
Hi Sol,
I read your last thought on your son. I realized it was 2 weeks in which he did not get in touch after saying no. I have a son who also is not a phone person or a big one on visiting. That can be common in that age group. It is in their minds, all about them.
Try and invite him over for lunch or if you have his address, send him a card. I send cards to my son all the time. It opens up communication and hopefully will bring you both closer.
His motives, if there are any, will surface and it will be obvious. Otherwise, maybe there is potential for a real relationship.You may have said no to a loan but your heart says yes to your need for a loving tie. Let him know just how much you want him in your life. Good luck!
Debbie, that’s right. Sol can do those various things to try and keep the lines of communication open with her son, invite him over etc, so that he knows she is interested in having a relationship with him.
Sol will find what his real motives are, and will either have a loving/respectful relationship with her for years to come, or she will discover it really is all about him and what he hopes to gain monetarily. Thanks!
My son in law for the past 3 yrs.. when ever the four of us go out never offers to pay haf or treat as my husband and I always do. I dread going cause I know the bill is on my husband. My son in-law and wife together have over $220,000. per year.. I hear they dine out all the time.. but one calls us. How do I handle this. My husband and I are always arguing thinks cause he’s the dad..it is his responsiblitly.
Thanks
JEC
JEC, I can soooo relate to what you’re saying. We had to deal with that as well with the hubby’s son (my step-son) and wife who always seem to be conveniently “broke” everytime the four of us would make plans to go out to dinner together.
We nipped it in the bud real quick. Each time there are plans being discussed to meet up at a restaurant together, we always tell the waiter/waitress “separate tickets please”.
What was funny about doing that the first time was, these grown kids would initially be choosing to order some of the more expensive items on the menu, but when they understood they’d be paying for their own meal, their choice for dinner quickly changed to something much more affordable.
We also make a point to ask, Got your wallet? before leaving for a restaurant. If they were to say No, the dinner plans are immediately cancelled/rescheduled for when the wallet and money is there.
We are not an ATM machine, nor will we be treated like we “owe” grown kids anything.
Be prepared to change plans/cancel them altogether the next time plans are being made. It will only get worse if it’s not stopped now. Oh, on Monday I will have a post you will surely be interested in checking out. It’s an interview with a well-known author on the subject of helping vs. enabling grown children. Stay tuned.
My son left home when he was 17 due to a drug problem, he’s been gone almost 9 months, turned 18 about 4 months ago. He recently has emailing and wants to see us but I am reluctant to see him. He was violent and angry when he was doing drugs. He says he’s been clean for two months now. He seems very persistant to see us but says he isn’t expecting anything. I’m concerned to see him and asked him to work on rebuilding a relationship slowly. He has now asked to see his grandma who iwll be in town in a few weeks. She never saw him when he was using and I’m concerned that even with her there if I his dad or I say something wrong he’ll get upset and we may not see him again for another year. I would rather take it slowly and do emails, phone calls or letters. Does that sound reasonable?
Hi Pat, I can understand your concern about your son, especially since it’s been such a short time that he’s been clean from drugs. At least as far as you know, based on what he’s telling you.
I believe you have every right to set whatever boundaries and limits you feel comfortable with in rebuilding the relationship, and you should not feel pressured to do more than you feel is appropriate in the situation.
It sounds very reasonable to me to rebuild the relationship slowly, as you need to see clear signs and proof that things have really changed, and the previous behaviors of anger and violence will not happen again. Two months of being without drugs is a start, but it’s only two months, if he’s being honest about it.
Do whatever you feel comfortable and at ease about, taking things as slowly as you believe is necessary. You know him better than anyone else, and you have every reason to set the criteria as strict as you see fit. Listen to your instincts and intuition; let those guide you in how to proceed with your son. Good luck!
My husband & I have two grown children in their mid to late 20′s. They were both taught, at a very young age, the value of a dollar and the importance of having good credit. We also taught them (we thought) to be self-sufficient.
Our eldest, while living at home, proved to be a penny-pinching, self-sufficient, independent and hard-working individual. It all went downhill after marriage i.e. foreclosure, bankruptcy and repo.
Our youngest, while living at home, proved to be a lazy, dependent and “what can you do next for me” individual.
They don’t live with us; however, they are living in two of our rent homes. One is paying rent, and the other is supposed to be working for my husband and I on the weekends to pay for rent.
To make a long story short, one is behind on the rent and the other is not helping. My husband and I are hurt and frustrated.
We called a family meeting last night and asked them what their plans were. How were they going to move forward with their lives without any help from us. Sadly, neither one of them had an answer. They basically told us it was none of our business. I proceeded to tell them their financial situation was our business being that we’ve dished out over 15K to them. Neither one of them had a clue as to how much money we’ve given to them. They were upset with us because we confronted them.
Unfortunately, we did not get through to them. They thought it was all about money. And, yes, money has a lot to do with the problem. They failed to understand that our main concern was how were they going to survive on their own.
My husband and I are glad that we confronted them, but we are heart broken, sad, disappointed and hurt that we even had to address the situation. Confronting our grown kids was the hardest thing that we have ever done in our life.
Our kids will probably try to punish us by not letting the grandkids call or come to visit. Yes, it will hurt us not seeing our grandkids, but our grandkids are being punished as well.
Hurt & Disappointed, my heart goes out to both of you. You raised your children to beable to take care of themselves as grown adults, yet they use it against you in the family meeting and tell you it’s none of your business.
Of course it’s your business!, and I’m happy that you both realize that and stood your ground with your kids.
I applaud you for holding the meeting and finding out from your grown children what they intend to do about the situation. Sadly, the response they gave was disappointing to say the least.
As sad and upsetting as it is, it’s good that you know the reality of how they feel and what their “plans” are about how to take care of themselves without help from mom and dad. The fact is, they have no plan, and they fully intend on tapping into “The bank of mom and dad” as often as the parent bank stays open.
Mom and Dad, it’s time to completely close the bank. No help from either of you whatsoever. Zip, zero and nada. Not one penny more.
If you don’t put a stop to it right now, I dare say that when the time comes for you two to retire, you will have very little money to live on. Then what?
I strongly recommend that you not allow the children to continue living in your rent homes. You can find other tenants to rent those homes from you, and they will be people who show you and your property the respect that you are due.
Their attitude is clear. They want and intend on things continuing as is, but as you know and mentioned, the way things are and have been are not good for your children and they’re not good for your grandchildren either. And it’s not good for either of you too.
Using the grandchildren to build leverage against you two, or to ‘punish you’ is wrong, wrong, wrong. Disrespectful on every level that I can imagine.
I recommend that you give the kids a set-in-stone timelimit of when they must be out of the houses, perhaps 60 days to give them time to find a new place, and deal with the issues they have brought on themselves.
You were truly trying to help your children, but have used you both and are milking it for what it’s worth to them, and now it’s time to stop all help entirely.
Even if they react in anger towards you both initially, over time they will learn the reality of what they have done to YOU. Hopefully the day will come in the not too far off future where they will come to you both and give you sincere apologies and tell you that you did the right thing by kicking them out of the house(s). Good luck! My thoughts and prayers are with you both.
We have a 19 year old son who was following the rules, but now he’s not. We have identified a date where he must either be employed (25 hrs/min week) and enrolled in summer school or he’ll be paying us rent ($300/mo). We also pay for his cell phone, all his food and his medical insurance. We co-signed on his college loan for year one. He has no motivation whatsoever. But neither do his friends. Now he says he has no money to pay us by May 31 rent (I’m guessing he’s assuming he won’t be employed yet).
My question is: If he doesn’t pay, what do we do next? Kick him out? Our older son already has painted us as devils for not financially supporting his excessive habits. Do we really pack up his stuff and send him on his way?
This all hurts your heart. I’m not one to mince words. Work or pay. But I guess I haven’t thought about what if he can’t pay. Help!
Hi Stephanie, I completely understand how this is hurtful for you. Question….Why are you paying for your 19 yr old son’s cell phone? Since when is a cell phone a necessity that parents pay for, along with food, clothing and shelter? Why would your son WANT to be motivated to take care of his own responsibilities when he sees they can and will be taken care of for him? Sure, having a cell phone is a nice convenience, but it’s still a luxury and not required for living. Stop paying for his cell phone for starters.
He “was” following the rules but now he’s not. What changed? Graduation from high school perhaps and suddenly he’s become lazy and unmotivated to make something of himself and be responsible for himself financially and in any other way? Not a good sign.
I would never have recommended co-signing for the loan, as I’ve rarely ever heard of that turning out well. More often than not, the ‘child’ knows that mommie and daddy will pick up the tab if their loan payment is not made because if they don’t, their credit will be affected. Sounds to me like these kids have their parents in a headlock.
Yes, if your son does not follow through with what you’ve stipulated are the rules and conditions, then absolutely kick him out of the house. He will not starve or live on the streets. He will most likely stay with a friend, or bounce from one friend to another, while coming to the tough realization that he can’t take advantage of his parents anymore and the bank of mom and dad is now closed.
Need creates motivation; if the real need is not present (like being able to have a cell phone and food to eat), then why would a grown child develop the motivation to change if everything continues to be done for him? Be tough and stay tough, requiring your son to do what was decided as rules, and if/when he doesn’t follow through….out he goes.
One more thing…he knows how hard it is on you and that it hurts you, and he’s counting on the emotional turmoil caused to control and manipulate you into allowing his lazy behavior to continue. Good luck!
November last year, I turned 18. I still live with my mother, and if it’s up to her, that’s not going to change anytime soon.
When I was sixteen, my mother left for another city to find work, since there weren’t many options in the rural area where we lived. I moved to live with my grandfather, who was left alone since his wife, my grandmother, passed away the year before. He had made a room for me in the basement, divided from the rest of the house by a wooden wall with a door and a window. Though the room was tiny (it contained a bed and a cabinet, with almost no space left to squeeze through), I could also use my grandmother’s old closet ustairs an had my uncle’s house to go to (he lived a few blocks away). I was never asked for rent, though I did chores around the house (doing my grandfather’s laundry along with my own, etc.).
The basement room, however, had old, thin walls and combined with the wet area where the house stood, this eventually flooded the room. I then moved in with my uncle, where I had a much larger room, as well as my own laptop (a gift from my mother) which I used for schoolwork. By this time, the final years of high school were starting, so I often worked all the way into the night, even though my uncle, who slept one door away, had to get out of bed early for work (he always said the lights in my room didn’t bother him). My uncle, too, never wanted any rent, athough his income was below average and I did use gas, water and electricity. I practically lived alone (though I visited my mother during weekends), since my uncle either worked overtime or was off to his hockey club all evening. I kept the house tidy and did my own cooking and laundry (by hand, saves water and the dye in some of my clothes was water soluble, it would’ve been disastrous in a washing machine). I never did any cooking or laundry for my uncle, since he didn’t like my weird Indonesian cooking style and was afraid I’d neatly store his clothes in places where he couldn’t find them.
All this time I have never had a job, since my mother was against it, and though I never went out and rarely spent money on frivolous things, I have always felt that this might be wrong, as if I lived like some parasite.
Recently, at the start of the holidays, I moved in with my mother, even though she lives in a small apartment. Since she works a fulltime job, I do the housework, shopping, laundry and cooking for both of us. My mother also puts me in charge of the money whenever we go shopping together, since she knows I will only buy the things we need and nothing more. However, I still do not have a job, and although I have already enrolled at a college not too far from here, my mother insists on paying for that as well. She is not in a bad way financially, but I don’t want to live off her for years.
Some time ago, my mother came up with a plan. When I finish college, we should find a house and live together until she dies. To prove her point, she uses the India argument, as well as things like “this is the way people have lived for years” and “Western culture is just wrong”. She has constructed a whole future based around this idea.
I don’t want to become one of those 40-years olds who live completely dependent on their parents, but to just shatter my mother’s dreams sounds too harsh. I’m afraid I might be missing out on valuable lessons.
I know this is kind of a long post, but I don’t mean to complain, argue, or make my family members look bad. All I’m looking for is some insight.
Have I been spoiled/enabled or am I running the risk of becoming that?
(PS: post got a little out of hand, thanks for reading the whole thing)
Hi Any Ideas and welcome to the site. Culture influences have a lot to do with your situation. As you said, you are only 18 and soon to enter college and begin your life as an adult.
It seems rather odd to me that your mother did not take you with her when she moved because of a job when you were only 16 and had to live with other relatives for a time. Why was that ok with your mom but now she believes the two of you should live together for the rest of your life? My first thought was that perhaps she’s feeling a sense of guilt (but I can’t know for sure of course) for leaving you behind, and now is using the culture to keep you tied to her. Hmm.
Since you are only 18 and about to go to college, it’s too soon to tell if this is a case of enabling or not. At least not right now. But if your mom’s idea is for you to stay with her, buy a house together and live together, than it very easily lead to a case of enabling. She may be having difficulty in “letting go” since she realizes you are 18 and about to begin your grown up life.
Being on your own, living on your own, taking care of and paying for your own bills and adult responsibilities separate and apart from your mother will be very good for you personally. Staying with your mom and continuing to live with her well into your adulthood will hinder your growth and advancement in life, and will negatively affect your relationships or marriage when the time comes.
It seems to me that your mom is afraid. She seems to be scared of losing you and losing the connection she has with you, but she has to understand you are grown now and must move on with your own life. Holding you back and keeping you with her would be um…selfish of her.
Go to school, get your job and move out and move on with your life. If your job and preferences allow you to stay and live relatively close to your mom’s place, that would be reasonable and she would appreciate being able to see you and talk to you regularly. But living with her should not be an option at all. You need, want and deserve to live your life as you see fit, just like she did and has. Good luck!
When is enough, enough? My 22yr old daughter has been going to college (she is eligible for grants) for over three years now. She also has a part time job. She could have lived with us for free but she chose to move into an apt. w/ a roommate. She said she could handle paying her rent but that has never been the case. We have always paid her rent, we paid off her car a few months ago, we pay her full coverage insurance bill, and we give her money when she asks for it. My husband and I live from paycheck to paycheck. We have no savings, no health ins. and no life ins. We live on less than a half acre land it has an older mobile home on it that we are constantly making repairs on and trying to make it a decent place to live. I have my own vehicle but my husband drives a company vehicle. If he were to lose his job we would have only one vehicle between us. We have been trying to save money for our obvious needs but between our bills and our daughters bills that’s impossible. I feel like my daughter is living above our means and asking too much of us. I sure need some advice. Thank you.
Adora, today is the day to close the bank of mom and dad. Completely close the bank and lock it down, throw away the key. Not one more penny is to be given to your daughter, or to go towards any of her bills, even when she comes begging for help. As you said, enabling your daughter has put you and your husband in a financial mess, and it’s time to take stock of your situation.
Your daughter is only working part time and going to college. She hasn’t been paying her own rent, and you and your husband have been paying her rent on a place she chose to move into. You’ve paid off her car, and you and your husband are paying for her insurance. Bad idea.
Read again some red flag statements you’ve made:
1. She only works part time.
2. She’s going to college.
3. She chose to live in an apartment with a roommate but hasn’t even paid her own rent.
She’s an adult now. She chooses whatever she chooses for her life, and mom and dad are paying her way. From her perspective, she’s got a pretty good deal going on, wouldn’t you say? Except it’s putting you and your husband in the poor house, where if your husband lost his job things would be very rough for you, and you both don’t have insurance coverage for your own needs.
It’s time to get tough with yourself and your daughter. Understand that while you have been trying to help your daughter, she is the one who should be helping herself and being financially responsible. If she can’t pay her own rent and bills working part time, she needs to get a full time job, while still going to college. Kids do it all the time, working full time while at the same time going to school, and your daughter needs to be working full time.
What would motivate her to help herself in ways that eliminate your financial help? Need. Need creates motivation. As long as you and your husband are fulfilling her needs, financial and otherwise, she will not be motivated to help herself.
Tell your daughter that you will not be able to give her any more money, or help her pay her bills or buy her food etc from this day forward. Tell her she will have to find the means to pay her own way, even if it means she has to work a full time job AND a part time job on weekends all while going to college. Remember, kids will do whatever they have to do to get what they want/need, because where the need is, motivation is there too or else they’d starve to death. That’s called being grown up. Taking care of our own bills, buying our own food, paying our own insurance and taking care of our own needs. Saying NO to ourselves to purchases we can’t afford in order to ensure our bills are paid and we have a roof over our heads. She’s not going to “grow up” until you cut those financial apron strings. One important thing to mention as well: Do not allow her to move back home with you if/when she can’t pay her rent or pay her bills. That would be putting her right back into the same scenario where all her needs/wants are being taken care of for her, rather than doing it herself for herself, and your financial situation would remain as it is right now if not worse than it is now. Not more money Adora, not one penny. Tough Love. Good luck!
Hello, thank you for your response but I feel that cutting my daughter off completely from financial help while she is going through college would be down right harsh. It might be exactly what she truely needs to learn to be independent but she is my only child and I would feel like a bad, cold parent and feel guilty. But on the other hand, she is keeping us in the poor house, as you said. In return for our constant financial help I have asked her to come over and mow the lawn. She has mowed our lawn maybe four times in the three years we have been living in this new home but not b/c I haven’t asked for more help. She is a stunningly beautiful young woman, from head to toe. I’m not just saying that b/c I’m her mother. Everybody thinks that and tells me so. She has had the same boyfriend for more than a year now. She has never introduced him to us. We live in the same city but the only time we see her are holidays and when she briefly pops over to p/u money that she asks us for. The other night she poped over to p/u some money that she had to have for college that day or her classes would be canceled. It was on a Thursday and the amount she needed was all we had. It enptied our pockets! We have asked her numerous times to give us a few days notice so we could make room for it in the weekly budget. But she did it again. She was driving her boyfriends brand new large p/u truck b/c her inspection sticker was out on her car. This said to me, even though we are paying almost all of her bills she is waiting and expecting her parents to pay for and take care of that for her too. I thought that if her boyfriend is financially able to afford a brand new vehicle then why wouldn’t he offer to pay for her vehicle inspection which is only forty dollars. I asked her about that. She said she doesn’t ask him for financial help b/c they aren’t married. I asked if they were having sexual relations. She said yes. I said that is what married people do and it is not improper to ask your boyfriend for financial help, esp, if you are in need. She phoned my husband crying and said that I told her to be a prostitute to her boyfriend and it caused so much trouble between us. I need advice.
Adora, the things you are describing here are exactly what grown children do to their parents that put the parents in a position of continuous enabling.
These children will continue to ask for money until. Until when? Until the parents take a firm stand and not give them anymore money. When these children realize that they cannot use their parents as their personal ATM machine, then and only then will the requests for more and more money stop and the kids finally start taking care of themselves as adults.
Not giving your daughter anymore money would be the best help you could possibly give her. Not only would it teach her that she has to stand on her own two feet as an adult and take care of her own needs, it would also help you and your husband get into a better financial situation yourselves as you rightly deserve.
Let me quote what you said, “I feel that cutting my daughter off completely from financial help while she is going through college would be down right harsh. It might be exactly what she truely needs to learn to be independent but she is my only child and I would feel like a bad, cold parent and feel guilty.”
In order for your daughter to be independent financially and in any other way, you must realize that you feeling “like a bad, cold parent and feeling guilty” is exactly how kids get their parents to continue giving and giving until they have nothing at all left to give. In order words, in the poor house themselves. Getting your daughter to behave like an adult requires you to deal with your feelings of “guilt”, learn to let go in every way, as I talk about in my article How to stop enabling. Remember Adora, this is not about you and it can’t be about you and your guilt feelings, but the focus must be on getting your daughter to be independent on her own. That is what it means to stop enabling adult children, and that is why I say to stop giving her money.
Hello, it’s me again. My daughter and I haven’t phoned each other in weeks. I’ve been doing soul searching about how I need to feel about the situation w/ her. I am writing you today to ask what you think about the Father’s day card she gave to her dad today. She chose a card that had written on the cover that read, “Dad, I don’t think I can repay you for all the time and money you’ve spent on me…” The inside read, “You aren’t going to bill me are you?” (A few weeks ago I asked my daughter if she would start paying back the money we would give her b/c, dad needed a vehicle and we didn’t have any savings whatsoever). She wrote on the card, ” I look up to you and respect you more than anyone I’ve meet in my 22 years.” (Compliment for him, insult for me). “I notice how much you do for me and how hard you work so I don’t have to and I am blessed to have such an amazing Dad. I love you so much Dad”. To me, her card says, I hope you are not going to ask me to repay the money you give me and keep up the hard work old man so you can keep giving to me and I won’t have to be in desperate financial need for as long as you are able to make money. Do you think I am reading too much between the lines or do you agree w/ me. What are your thoughts about this? Thank you.
Hi Adora, wow. Considering the situation we’ve been discussing lately about your daughter, that card would have offended me too.
The real “zinger” is where you say she wrote, “I notice how much you do for me and how hard you work so I don’t have to” blah blah blah.
If that card were given to me or my husband, I’d be very upset, regardless of whether the card was Father’s Day or not. At first, the card seemed sort of tame (the pre-printed front), but it’s really the part she personally wrote on the inside of the card that tells me (and obviously you too) that there is much more to be understood in that card than might meet the eye.
So, No I don’t think you’re reading too much into it. I understand the card to mean exactly the same as you do. Very poor choice of a card, and very poor choice of words to add inside. It definitely would give me concrete proof of her intentions as far as receiving money from here on out. The chances that she’ll pay anything back is (in my opinion) slim to none, so I would be inclined not to give her one more penny. No matter what “emergency” she comes up with in the future. Gosh, how sad that your daughter would insult you and your husband this way.
The situation with our adult son, who is almost 30, is causing us tremendous stress. In the past year, I have lost a sister, a brother-in-law, a best friend diagnosed with ovarian cancer, and had to put my 90 year old mother in a nursing home. My disabled husband suffered two devastating strokes and my beloved cat is in kidney failure. During all of this, our son moved back home. I thought that he would be a comfort, but the opposite happened. He will do his own laundry, cook once in a blue moon, and takes out the trash. He brings his 18 month old son to our home every other weekend, no matter what my plans are, and leaves the baby with us while he works. I’m never “asked” if I will watch the baby and after baby goes back to his mom’s, I’m left with cleaning the entire house. My son had told me he was moving out in August, but went out and bought a new car, leaving him with a high car payment and insurance through the roof, and I doubt he can afford to move out. Last night was the final straw. I had moved all of his and baby’s things that were left strewn through the house onto his bed. He yelled at me and said I had broken his lap top and grabbed some of his clothes, saying “I’ll be back tomorrow to get my things. I see how you are.” I have a full time job and am the sole support of the family. I have tried talking with my son in the past and have asked him to help out more (he’s always too tired), help me paint the living room (he won’t, because he hates to paint), help me with a web project for work (he’s too busy)…you get the picture. I’m emotionally spent from the past year and I don’t know how to deal with this. I’m heartbroken and feeling very used. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
Hi Jazz, I’m so sorry you’ve had to endure all of this stress and heartache with losing people you love and the stress of putting your mother in a nursing home. I know how hard that must be for you, as we’ve been there ourselves not too long ago.
I’m so glad you got tough with your son and dumped his and his child’s stuff on the bed. You made a very clear point and it was obviously needed, as your son really appears to be taking advantage of the situation in many ways. Good for you that you made it perfectly clear that your home isn’t to be treated like a dumping ground.
His assumptions that you will take care of his child, without so much as asking you if you could or wanted to, is presumptuous beyond imagination. His doing his own laundry etc is only the basics of what he should and could have been doing while staying in your home, but he obviously had no intention of doing anything that would be of real help to you or your husband, and assumed he could do as he pleased while living under your roof.
Let him come and get his stuff, and fight the urge to feel guilty at all by anything he may say to “dig” into you emotionally. Guilt trips and personal attacks such as his comment “I see how you are” are ridiculously immature. He’s almost 30 and using those whiny words in order to make you feel bad and initiate guilt feelings for you.
Let him come and get his stuff, no matter what. If it is easier for you to not be there and deal with his nonsense when he picks his stuff up, then by all means have your husband or another relative or close friend be there instead. You may (if you have time and the ability) want to gather as much of his stuff and put it all in large trash bags or boxes (if you have any around), and have them by the front door. When he comes back to get his stuff, perhaps with the idea of staying longer, he’ll see that’s not going to happen and will need to take his stuff and go. If that’s not possible for you to gather up much of his belongings, it’s understandable of course. Just don’t back down. Don’t let him stay another day/night. Today is the day for him to realize in full force that he’s been taking advantage of you and your home, and now he has to deal with the consequences of his own choices.
His new car? HA! Buying a car with or without a high car payment is his personal choice, and he must deal with any consequences that come with that choice, including the possibility of having to return the car or sell it etc in order to financially take care of himself and his child in their own place. Remember, the car was his choice, not yours, so don’t allow any attempts of guilt trips to get under your skin.
Since right now would be emotionally charged for him coming to get his stuff, now would not be the best time to have a talk with your son about the what, why, where, when and how everything fell apart. Let him get his stuff, and let some time pass (perhaps a week) and then if he’s willing to talk, then explain to him in a calm but firm manner how his being there, along with his attitude and unwillingness to help you, and his assumptions about taking care of his child, were hurtful to you.
Stand up for yourself, and let him know that you love him and his child, but you will not be taken advantage of. Tell your son that his living with you was not an invitation for free and assumed babysitting whenever the child came. You’ve been taken advantage of by your son, and now he needs to deal with the consequences of his own poor choices and be a man, and move out and on his own. Don’t let him move back in, no matter what. If he’s angry, he’ll get over it. You have the right to be treated with dignity and respect, and it’s obvious those two words aren’t currently in his vocabulary. Good for you that you stood up for yourself! I’m so proud of you! Hugs to you!
Thank you so much for your concern and for taking the time to provide such great advice! Before I found this web site, I felt very much alone. Just knowing that there are others facing difficult situations with adult children eases my mind, although my heart goes out to each person going through hard times. As I look back at all we’ve sacrificed to allow him to come home, my guilt is starting to fade. I gave up my home office and over half of my collection of books to make room for him and baby. I’ve been going to work a couple of hours early to catch up on projects that I could have done at home. We’ve purchased organic foods for baby, bought baby furniture, countless diapers and other baby needs. This has stretched our budget. But our son has gone to major league football games, taken vacations, and pretty much spent his money on himself without offering us a single penny. I’ve watched him spend countless hours on his laptop playing video games while his disabled dad has struggled to do simple tasks, and chooses not to offer help. When I packed up all of the books and carried them out of the house, I had no help and ended up with a cracked rib from all of the heavy lifting. I’m slowly facing the fact that our son is a “user” of people, and not just his parents. He has several women on the string ( a rich one for money, baby’s mom to keep her from suing for child support, and several women for partying.) Life is all about choices, and I choose NOT to be a doormat. Our son may bottom out, but maybe that will be a wake-up call to him about his choices. He’s not been back since last week and we don’t know where he is or if he is okay, and even though we worry, we realize that’s his choice to behave in such a childish manner. I’ve been thinking of how to turn this situation into something positive and when I get my own emotions under control, I am thinking of starting a support group for parents with adult children at home. Maybe I can help others and pass along the support you’re giving me. Again, thank you so much!
Jazz, the support group sounds like a wonderful idea! Congratulations on that! I wanted to also mention that it’s not at all surprising to me that your son hasn’t contacted you since leaving last week, and it’s important that you know this sort of behavior is often done to make parents worry and second-guess themselves. In other words, it’s a tactic used to get under parents skin, so don’t fall for it. If anything was really wrong, or something had happened to him, you’d already know. He’s just flexing his muscles a bit and silently speaking volumes: “I’m going to do whatever I want, and there’s nothing you can do about it”. It is most definitely childish behavior, whining in a sense, and quite ridiculous. Give your husband and yourself a big hug and know you’ve done everything you possibly could for your son and now it’s time for him to grow up all the way. Good luck Jazz!
What do you do when the child isn’t yours? My fiance’s daughter informed us she and her boyfriend were moving in and didn’t want to pay rent or pay back the money her father paid for her to replace the car she totalled. He has also paid back many credit cards bills she couldn’t pay. I put my foot down and her dad decided to charge them $300 a month rent which doesn’t begin to cover living expenses for both of them. They are 23 and have full time jobs yet they leave us a grocery list every Saturday. Help! Her dad doesn’t see that he is enabling her. He pays for everything including everytime her car breaks down etc. etc. She also changes her plan every month or so. Right now the plan is to save money for 6 months to buy an old VW bus then save for another 6 months to go on a trip across the country for 6 months. Which puts them back where after the 6 month tour??
LadyHawk, your situation may seem a bit different for you because she’s not your child. But, as I’ve said to others dealing with enabling behaviors from a fiance or live-in-boyfriend/girlfriend, the enabling affects you and your livelihood so you have every right to be concerned and even upset.
From what I’ve said to others in a similar situation is that you have what I believe to be two choices.
1. Try your best to show your fiance’ how he is being an enabler to his grown daughter and her boyfriend, and help him to realize the detrimental effects this has on her ability to grow as the adult she is and be financially responsible for herself/themselves, and also how the enabling (yes, he’s an enabler) affects your personal and financial relationship with each other.
2. Be glad that you know now (before the wedding) that if you go ahead with the marriage, and he decides to continue his enabling behaviors, what you’re seeing happening now (and for however long you’ve been seeing it happening) will most assuredly continue to occur after the wedding and for many coming years.
Ask yourself, Am I willing to live my married life involved in an enabling situation or not? Ask yourself, What are my “relationship deal breakers”, and then read my article on that subject and decide for yourself what you are and are not willing to put up with. You’re lucky, many people who write to me about the problems of helping vs. enabling are already married and feel extremely stuck. You have a choice to make, and I hope for your sake that you’re able to show your fiance’ the effects of enabling and can get him to stop enabling his daughter, so your relationship can flourish. Have him read these articles on helping and enabling and ask him what he believes the difference is between helping vs enabling, and his responses may very well tell you what you need to know once and for all what you’re in for if you get married. Good luck!
Hello. I’m an RN, married to a retired police officer. As many have written in these posts, I feel that we are enabling our daughter. My husband lost his wife in a tragic accident and was left with two young children. We married later and I helped raise his daughter and son, no real problems with the children until recently. After the children moved out, we downsized to a two bedroom condo and although my husband has some serious health issues, we began to enjoy life as a couple. Over two years ago, daughter became pregnant and things didn’t work out with her and the baby’s dad. She and the baby moved in with us on a temporary basis. Two years later, she is still with us. She took a minimum wage job, and the baby’s dad pays for daycare, insurance and most of baby’s diapers, etc. She gives us no money, minimal help around the house and leaves the grandchild with me to babysit at every chance while she goes out to party with her friends. She refuses to move out, saying she can’t afford it. I have looked into many social programs that would help her, and offered to pay for her education so she can get a decent job with benefits, all to no avail. Suddenly, I’ve become the “wicked step-mom”, because I have stopped baby-sitting, doing her laundry and cleaning up after her and the baby. She calls me names and blames me for every little thing that is wrong in her life. My husband will not stand up for me and doesn’t seem to think it’s a big deal that she continues to mooch off of us. She is 27 and I think it’s time she takes responsibility for her life and her child. Our living space is over-crowded and you can cut the tension with a knife. I don’t think this is healthy for any of us. My own health is starting to suffer from the stress and it’s getting to the point where I am considering leaving my husband. I love my family and don’t want to do this, but am at my wits end. I want my life with my husband back and to enjoy the grandchildren, not raise them. Please advise and thanks for taking time to read this post.
Rose, your situation with your grown daughter breaks my heart, and I can only imagine how difficult this has been for you. In my opinion, the way your daughter is treating you is downright abusive, and if I were you, I would have stopped doing anything for her (babysitting etc) as you have. Good for you!
It’s incredible to me the way that grown kids often take advantage of parents good intentions and desire to help, only to discover that there are conditions placed on the parents by the “children”, and when “help” stops so does the respectful treatment towards their parents.
It is NOT okay for you and your husband to be used and abused by anyone, especially your own children, and if your husband won’t get tough with the daughter and come to your defense, you may have to get very tough all on your own. Perhaps even with your husband, to at least make him realize and understand the detrimental effects the enabling has had on you and your health; stress, financial stability, etc.
As I said to LadyHawk and others above, you would do well to have your husband read articles and information that would help him understand the difference between helping and enabling, as your husband may not realize there really is a difference, and that there are harmful effects of enabling behaviors for everyone involved.
As I wrote in one of my articles on the subject of helping vs enabling, I really do recommend the book, Setting Boundaries with Your Adult Children: Six Steps to Hope and Healing, as it is written by someone who has gone through it herself, and gives great first-person advice on how to stop enabling, and I’m sure you and your husband will relate well to the book’s information. Get tough, and get your daughter outta there. Hugs!
As a family therapist, I have been searching the Internet for support materials and other information to provide the best care for those who come for help. I must say that this is the best site I have found, and Lin, your advice is spot on! I am very alarmed at the increasing number of individuals who have problems with adult children (almost double from five years ago.) With the down turn in the economy, I forsee even more parents facing the same issues. I respectfully submit some comments that I hope will bring some measure of comfort to those in this situation.
1. The only person you can control is yourself. Your children are grown and need to be accountable for their own actions. No matter how much you love your adult child, you cannot change his/her behavior, but you can take control of your own situation.
2. Forgive yourself for past mistakes. Adult children often lay blame on parents and things that have happened in the past (guilt trips are often a measure of control that children use to manipulate parents.) You did the best you could with what you had to work with at the time.
3. Respect yourself and demand that same respect from your children. As Lin has advised, you do not deserve, nor should you tolerate abuse from your children or anyone else.
4. Life is all about choices. Your adult child may be making bad choices, but this is his/her decision to make. Don’t allow their choices to interfere with your own life; choose to be happy and make the lifestyle you deserve.
5. Don’t be embarrased to seek help. Many parents feel ashamed that their grown children are behaving poorly. Seek help from friends, spiritual advisors, counselors or others who love you and care about your well-being. This web site is an excellent place to start! Once you realize that you aren’t alone, you can begin to take the actions you need to make your life better.
Lin, your compassion and care for others shows in the advice you give and I will be using the excellent support materials from the site, as well as referring this site to others! Keep up the good work, as you are truly making a difference.
Hi Callie, it’s nice to “meet” you.
It will be very interesting to see how adult/fully grown “children” will likely USE the down turn in the economy as an EXCUSE to move in with their parents rather than simply cutting back on expenses, eliminating “luxuries” from their budget that are not life sustaining in order to be independent and living on their own.
I shake my head in disgust when I hear about grown children complaining about not being “able to afford” living on their own, independent from their parents and how they supposedly HAVE to live with their parents.
These same grown adults are moving in with their parents, supposedly to SAVE MONEY, but while living with their parents these “children” are buying new cars; buying the latest techi gadgets like expensive cell phones, laptop computers and other unnecessary luxuries; regularly getting themselves pampered at the nail salon every other week; buying tickets to a variety of summer venues and attractions to entertain themselves over the summer.
If these grown, adult “children” were to actually reduce or eliminate any and all expenses that do not sustain life (food, clothing and shelter), they would find they actually CAN afford to live on their own, separate and independent from their parents. But just the idea of having to give up anything is considered to be extreme by these so called adults, and they’re not willing to give up anything but continue to expect to live “high on the hog”.
Yet their parents find themselves in a near-bankrupt situation because their selfish and greedy kids are so materialistic-minded, they don’t care enough about their own parents to actually be responsible for themselves financially and in every other way, while their aging/elderly parents are treated like an ATM machine.
It is called Entitlement, and parents have to learn how to stop enabling these grown children and make them live their own lives and be responsible for their own choice, dealing with the consequences of their own poor choices.
There is another aspect to enableling that needs to be mentioned. Without our trials and traumas we never learn to trust God. There is no need, adult children who use parents trust that they can use their parents instead, and so they never learn to trust that God will provide. I know that may sound extreem, but often when we do not allow them to hit bottom, we take away the lessons that God is attempting to teach. I know it is emotionally exhausting, I have a 27 YO who recently moved back home with his wife, both with drug problems. After a brief stay in a clean and sober living facility, they came to our house for about 6 M, they are back out on their own, and it is hard for me, but I go to my coda meetings, and weekly bible study groups for lots of support and try to follow what I know is right, not my heart. I lost one son to suicide, so the emotional price tag is high for me but I trust that doing what is the right thing is the best odds for my son to be able to be a happy productive person someday.
One of the reasons I am searching the Internet for matertial is that my educational background did not prepare me for dealing with abuse from their adult children. Nor did my own life experiences, as treating my parents in such a selfish manner never entered my mind. I owe my parents so much for all of the sacrifices they made for me, not the other way around. Five years ago, parents seeking help in dealing with adult children was rare and now it is seen on an almost daily basis. Some of the cases are heartbreaking, such as the individual suffering from cancer. This person had an adult son living at home who refused to help and constantly berated her over the house not being clean. Her breaking point came when the son went on a rampage because she had to have the cable disconnected for financial reasons. He became violent, breaking her television and shattering some of her personal belongings. Two weeks prior, he had “treated” himself to a new motorcycle and couldn’t help her financially. She did find the strength to kick him out and although it was difficult, she is finding that fighting cancer is the only battle she needs right now. There are also many indivduals who are in financial crisis because they have drained their savings trying to help adult children who won’t work or contribute to the household expenses. Lin, there does seem to be a common thread in these adult children who have to have the latest tech gadgets, clothes from expensive stores or expensive cell phone plans. They believe it is their “right” to demand these things from the parents and don’t feel that they should sacrifice anything or settle for hard work and saving for what you need or want. The perplexing part is that the majority of parents we see are decent, hardworking individuals who have tried to raise their children with the same values that have been instilled in them. I don’t have the answers, but I applaud those who have the courage to stand up to these children and take back their lives.
Callie, from the analytical software I use for my site, there are a large number of parents who are dealing with grown children who have moved back in with the parents but are not following any of the house rules; not helping around the house as they had promised; and all numbers of “agreed on”conditions for living with the parents are ignored and the parents are treated with disrespect and even are abused by their children.
This topic of helping vs enabling is one I am so passionate about and I felt I had to take a strong stand and talk about these issues in such a straight forward (even blunt) way in order to get the point across.
Enabling behaviors by parents are not helping their grown children, but are actually holding these kids back from maturing fully. The effects of enabling are enormous, and financial ruin is just one of them.
Just yesterday I had someone reading these articles using the search terms “parents controlling the lives of adult children”, and I’m sure this person wasn’t too happy to read what I had to say since these are not in their favor. I’ll be writing an article in the next few days that is directed toward these grown children who claim their parents are just controlling their lives, when it’s really more a matter of parents trying their best to help their adult children become responsible.
This book was read in 2 days. I could really relate and picture me & my son in everything I read. My book is half highlighted.
I have 5 children & my oldest has been some what of a prodigal son. He couldn’t listen nor follow rules so we kicked him out several times to just take him in again. Many heart breaking years of an on again & off again relationship that He created. He always returned when there was no other place to go & asking for forgiveness & he was sorry for calling me the things he did. He came back home last Christmas to tell me I was to be a Grandma. I thought this would be it, He would change for good, NOPE it just got worse! In the 2 month time he was in our lives again he managed to get cigarettes, workbooks, gas money, maternity clothes for his girlfriend who wasa pregnant with our grandbaby. Not to mention a big Baby shower at a banquet room. Rather than greeting people she stood outside smoking with all her Gothic friends. I NEVER got 1 Thank You. In fact that was the last time we saw them then, I found out He supposivley had such a “messed up & dysfunctional ” childhood, He told me he’d hope I would die, I have been on a liver treatment which is hard enough on me. He NEVER once acted like he cared. He cares more about others that never cared for him longer than 2 years. He has twisted all my words around to say I said it to him? He then brain washed many people by his lies about me. Everyone is on his side & because of my “REACTIONS” to his evil Emails & battering & the pain he put me through they now think I’m the crazy one.
I found out my Grandson was born thru “MySpace” nice, huh?
We have hired an attorney for Grandparents rights. Here in Illinois you have to show “reasonable cause” to show before keeping a grandchild from the grandparents. Or 1 year which ever comes first. My grandson is 4 months old.
I feel WE are the ones to be abussed here. We also feel we have been unfairly treated for many years by my son. BECAUSE WE ENABLED & NEVER SET BOUNDARIES.
We feel he planned this all along.
We WILL get visitation. right now we are planning my grandsons 1st Birthday party.
Please pray that the truth comes out & these people do see he is a liar & will do the same thing to them.
Faith, I understand completely what you’re saying here. I’ve been there myself, very recently. I even wrote an article about my excitement about learning I was becoming a grandma for the first time. Then shortly afterward, my son and his girlfriend broke up for reasons unknown to me, and even though my grandson was born in March of this year, attempts to talk to the mother have been thwarted every time. Boxes of baby clothes, diapers, etc that I’ve bought and mailed to Chicago (small world eh?) have been returned to me with no explanation. Whatever occurred between my son and his girlfriend had nothing to do with me, and it’s been very upsetting to have no pictures of my grandson and no communication whatsoever from the mother. I’ve only begun to research the subject of grandparents rights, and I will very likely write articles on that very subject, including my personal experiences as a first time grandmother with no access to my grandson.
I feel your pain Faith, and I know what you’ve been through with your son. What you’re saying about your son happened in a similar way with one of my sons, the father of my grandson. The truth came out about his lies, and everyone discovered on their own what the truth was and they’ve all come rallying by my side ever since. The truth will come out about the lies your son has told, it just may take a little more time than you’d hope. In my case, it took six long and painful months, but the truth came out nonetheless. Hang in there Faith, it will get better.
My boyfriend and I have lived together for 3 years. When I moved in his 19 year old (just graduated) daughter was living there but said she figured 4-5 months and she’d be out on her own. She got a job at a grocery store and then proceeded to live with us for over a year. I had to basically teach her how to contribute to the household (not just her own stuff–her parents had obviously not required them to do chores or anything). She was somewhat compliant but a real space cadet. “I forgot” was the daily chant. After the year, she rented one of her Dad’s duplexes with a friend. Turned out to be a bad choice as a roommate and she moved out after 3 months or so, but this time moved back in with her mother and step-dad a couple hours away, which is where she was while in high school. She is now 23, still working at the same grocery store in hat town, has an almost new car she is financing with the help of her mom and stepdad (cosigners). She is still there and will be 24 in Feb with no real plans of any kind as far as we know.
In the meantime, my bf’s now almost 20 year old son dropped out of high school to go to work with a construction company. It didn’t last long, but in the meantime he also financed a nearly new vehicle (mommy co-signed for this too I believe). His payments and insurance are over $600/mo together as he has had a couple accidents in the past. So, he ended up unemployed for a few months living with mom at age 18 and 19 and apparently mom/stepdad took care of his car payments. I guess they got tired of that situation or maybe started giving him a hard time (or maybe asking him for rent??), because called one day and told his Dad he wanted to move into our house, he got a job fairly quickly at a tire store for a month or so then showed up late a couple times and was close to being fired. He maybe IS fired, we don’t know, he doesn’t tell us anything and his Dad doesn’t charge him rent. He said he has another job lined up. We have no idea what it truly going on. Dad also included him on our cell-phone plan, which i went along with as it saves the 3 of us about $60/mo but I still KNOW the kid isn’t paying his share. At least that is in my bf’s name and not mine! My other beef with his son is that we have asked him to contribute to the household with simple chores (helping with dishes, taking out trash etc., mowing the lawn… WITHOUT ASKING every single time. If I cook a meal, I typically include him and he inhales his food, puts his own dishes in the d/w, then disappears. Lately he doesn’t even show up when the food is ready and eats it later…so I quit including him. I have asked him nicely to please help with the dishes etc., your dad or I shouldn’t have to clean it all up every time when he is included in the meals. Basically if I cook I expect someone else to clean up! His Grandma even told him he should do that ,and he said to her in no uncertain terms that HE CLEANS HIS OWN DISHES and that’s it! If the dishwasher is full of clean dishes he won’t empty it or put washed and dried pans away. If the dishwasher is full of clean dishes he puts his dirty dishes in the sink and walks away.
He now tells his relatives that he thinks I don’t like him (which is think is just his way of manipulating his family for sympathy and possibly support or money). I like him OK (or, I did until he started being a jerk!) On top of that he left the house a few days ago and won’t return his Dad’s calls. And even before that he would come and go as he pleased without letting us know anything about when he might be coming or going. We don’t need to know every move he makes (he’s an adult, right?) but out of consideration let us know if you plan to be gone a couple days etc.
I feel that what we are asking him to do to contribute is nothing more than you would ask of a 12 year old and he is being a big butthead, and working his mom, dad and family to the max. And his DAD feels GUILTY! I’m sure his mom does too, as she pretty much abandoned him for a good portion of his young life.
My BF thinks what with the prices of everything these days how can any kid make it on their own! I tell him they CAN , I did it on $5 an hour in the 80′s, I had 4 or 5 roommates, and never asked my parents for anything. Bought a cheap car (no payments) and was I eating great NO, lots of mashed potatoes and Top Ramen but I was still independent and having fun and partying, believe it or not!
I guess I don’t understand why a kid would want to live with mom or dad, have the new car but no real privacy and the ‘rules’ that come with living at home. Wouldn’t they rather have an older car, and have their independence and mnot have to suck up to their family to get by?
I don’t have any kids but I would tell the son that if she can’t be civil and communicate and contribute, then pack it up buddy!
Jeeez!
Hi NotTheMom, so dad feels guilty huh? That guilt-trip stuff really works on some people and of course kids know it and they milk it for everything it’s worth.
“The cost of everything these days” really has nothing to do with it. Even people that make tons of money sometimes find they have to learn how to cut corners, give up various luxuries, trim down or eliminate going out to eat very often, and generally become “frugal”.
LOL, even the “Royal Family” have been in the news about having financial difficulties. Please…
Kids have a variety of choices to make. They have to learn the difference between “needs” and “wants”. Take care of the REAL needs like food, clothing and shelter (wherever they can afford), and that may mean they have to give up the cell phone; plans for a new car; cable television; buying new games and gadgets; no more nail salon and pedicure appointments etc. Waaah. LOL
I’ve got another article coming on Wednesday about the “sense of entitlement” we see so common nowadays. Let me know what you think about that one. Tell “dad” to stop feeling guilty and realize that helping kids isn’t always helping.
Thanks for the input Lin. I agree that basically tough love is needed. They won’t starve to death if they are out on their own. But they will sure start to learn how to survive on their own. Even when I was young, my family would ‘help’ me once in a while…some used furniture or dishes or something. But I never asked them for it. I wish these kids would like to have their family’s respect! Looking forward to your article. I am going to pass along my letter and your reply to him too. Hmmm. I am sure he will say ‘kicking them to the curb’ doesn’t seem like the answer.
He does agree that they could have done without the new cars etc. If they go into default on those it’s on their mom’s back. Not ours thank GOD!
Poor babies! HAH!!
A few more details…the daughter lived with her dad for a year, while we dated, before I moved in. She had graduated from high school in her mom’s town and then left to go move in with her dad. So both kids, as adults, have lived with mom then left to live with dad, the daughter is now back with mom living rent free, and we aren’t sure what the son is up to at this point! He only comes home when we aren’t there. But he is also rent-free.
Both kids were raised for most of their childhood by their dad, as their mom apparently wasn’t ready to be married and have kids (party time! and she pretty much left them with their dad).
The kids moved in with their mom and step-dad when the daughter was about 14, son about 11. So you can imagine the guilt the mom might feel now, still. It seems she didn’t make the son do much around the house (or, that is, anything that is considered ‘women’s work’, the kid seems to think that any guy who does laundry or dishes to appease a woman is pu**y whipped). I don’t think the daughter had to do much either because I had to try to ‘train’ her to be an adult roommate when I moved in with her dad. Plus her room was and probably still is a disgusting pig-sty. She is actually a rather sweet-natured gal but she was just clueless. Parents don’t teach their kids a damn thing by letting them slide and slack off… and mollycoddling them, it makes my stomach turn. LOL.
And both kids, if you ask me, have taken advantage (and are still taking advantage) of both their mom and their dad and more than once.
When the daughter was in our house, she ate everything in sight. If I bought anything I wanted to last more than a day or two I had to hide it! Such as candy or chips, cereal or even a loaf of bread. When I want to go eat something of I want it to be there! And I am not going to feed his grown working children on any regular basis. Both kids have been told that ‘if you polish something off, bring another one home the next day’ and this never happened.
These 2 kids don’t even think about maybe bringing home some bread, or butter, cookies– stuff they eat all the time.
The dad said he didn’t mind supplying the kids with certain things but I made it clear that certain stuff was off-limits. Both kids would only buy their OWN food (like frozen dinners or burritos or just come home with fast food for themselves) but help themselves to anything in the kitchen. The son isn’t quite as bad as the daughter was as far as the food goes.
But then, he’s not there much any more because he is trying to tell us “EFF YOU I’m not doing anything you say, I’m going to make myself as scarce as possible and make you wonder and worry!”
The son also smokes like a chimney (and chews) and I have smelled the smoke in the middle of the night coming in my windows or through the vents from the garage…and I had to complain about that and ask him to smoke in the back yard. (the farthest from my window as possible). I am a social smoker so I felt sort of hypocritical but I only smoke on weekends or when I drink a beer. I sure as heck don’t want to smell it when I am trying to sleep.
So that was another thing that made the son angry. SO we ask him to help with dishes, taking out garbage. some lawn work and no smoking at night near my window or in the garage and that’s too much to ask apparently.
Well I will stop blathering now. it actually feels good to tell someone about this, because although my boyfriend (the dad) sort of understands my position he thinks my ideas of what he should do are too drastic.
I also don’t think the kids should have a key to the house once they are out. Do we get one for theirs? I doubt it! I want to change the locks when the son finally moves on. I am sure Dad won’t agree with that either.
So…there you go…a few more details.
NotTheMom, what you’re describing here is exactly what parents are seeing happen even when they’ve created a “contract” for living with parents. Even the contract doesn’t work, even though the kids promise they’ll follow the rules and contribute and help around the house etc. More often than not, it’s a snow job. Or, for the first few “honeymoon” weeks everything is going good and peachy, then suddenly it all comes to an dead stop. Hmm.
Hopefully ‘dad’ isn’t allowing his son’s intended plan to cause “wonder and worry” to actually contribute to his feeling guilty. That’s the whole idea for the son to do it ON PURPOSE! Why? To get his own way.
Hmm, even so-called grown up, adult children are behaving more and more like whiny toddlers. What’s that old saying, something about ‘gonna go and eat worms’ because of not getting their own way or something like that. Waah. Snif. Boo hoo. Maybe while these kids are on there way to go eat worms they might consider taking out the bag of trash with them.
LOL!!! Yeah RIGHT! There are times when I am cooking, and I will take the little bag out of the under sink trash and put it by the doorway (for someone else to take out, because I am cooking and everyone else is sitting around either watching TV or at their computers). Quite often that bag is still there in the morning!
Dad says the son isn’t making him feel guilty (not sure if I believe that) but he is mad that the kid won’t communicate and keep him posted as far as if he is employed or not, or if he will be gone for days at a time.
I asked hi m last night, how do I know that when the son is out of here that the DAUGHTER won’t end up coming back at some point? He kind of shrugged….I said I can’t handle that, and if your family wants to enable these kids I don’t think I can sit around and watch that either. (basically saying that I can and will move out). It’s my house too, I pay him for part of the mortgage and bills. And if I have no say and no control over any of this I don’t want to be there. PLUS I really don’t think they are doing the kids any favors by letting them move back again after they have drifted back and forth a couple times already. Let them go out there in the real world and figure it out! If they know someone will always cave and let them move back in they won’t ever be truly independent.
The dad DID (and I am proud of him for this) tell his mom to quit giving the son $$…she would front him money in exchange for work around her house and yard, which of course was very intermittent on his part and he still owes her money. So good job there DAD!!
Dear ‘Dad’: “the kid won’t communicate and keep him posted as far as if he is employed or not, or if he will be gone for days at a time.’ because he knows what buttons to push to make you mad. He’s showing you that on one hand he’s an ‘adult’ and he’s going to do whatever he chooses to do and there’s “nothing you can do about it”. Remember hearing that stuff when they’re teens? On the other hand, while he’s busy doing his own thing and making his own ‘grown up’ decisions (like make you worry and wonder), he also wants you and mom to be ready in a moment’s notice to whip out the checkbook cuz…well you know, things are so expensive these days. Be careful that it doesn’t turn into a case of the tail wagging the dog rather than the other way around.
Be strong, stop worrying and don’t ask him about if he’s employed or not. Remember, he’s a grown up now.
Notthe mom….
Why do you continue with this man then?
It seems you are the only one trying. It doesn’t look as if anything will change so rather than them changing as it says in the book above, YOU need to change!
If that means leaving this situation to get on with your life, so be it!
That might even be the thing they need to straighten up….a little taste of fright or reality to make them see you have been the only one to try.
Yeah he’s a grown up alright! hahaa!
The only reason we want to know if he is employed is because if he IS then he can start thinking about getting on his own. But if he keeps us in the dark he can ‘work it’ any way he wants to. And he will. And I really don’t think Dad would kick him out if he didn’t even have a job.
Also, it helps to know whether he can KEEP his jobs for any length of time (so far his record ain’t great!). If he was already out on his own I wouldn’t worry about it one way or the other, he’ll figure something out. But while he is freeloading I think we have a right to know what the heck is going on so we can gauge OUR actions and responses.
I guess for me the question comes down to Why would the son make the effort to find and maintain a job (so he can live on his own) when he’s got it so easy the way it is now? I understand what you’re saying about wanting to know where he is etc out of consideration and courtesy. I get that. It’s easier for him, I think, for him to keep things as is.
Right…he does have it easy as far no rent to pay but Dad really believes he wants to be OUT so he can do his own thing and not get nagged or whatever…what I am wondering is what’s the hold up dude? When I was his age I could find a place to live within days, I was roomies with complete strangers sometimes but I sure didn’t have to call mom for help. This happened more than once, one time for writing a bouncy check, I got kicked out of my place. I could be pretty irresponsible too but still dealt with it on my own. Even moved my own bedroom furniture. LOL.
I only wish that he and his family would NOT be a safety net for every little problem the kids might have.
Faith, I sometimes wonder that myself! The son living with us has only been the last 2 (3?) months and before that we had the place to ourselves for over a year, after the other kid went back to her mom’s. So the crap has just really started fairly recently. The son was OK to be around the first month and was working. I also barely know him. We didn’t get in his face TOO much at that time but when we saw he was avoiding chores like the plague he was confronted about it and he got pissy.
I can hardly wait for tomorrow’s article to go LIVE since it’s directed towards the adult children, while these articles about helping vs. enabling are directed towards the parents. It’ll be interesting to see the kinds of comments that article brings over the coming months (years).
You bet, I am very curious to read that! And pass it along to a dude that I know.
years from now it’ll be our Adult Children posting about our Grandchildren……I just hope & pray I’ll be around to read it and laugh!
(carma)lololol
LOL Faith, I know exactly what you mean and I agree. haha
The new article I wrote that is directed towards these grown children, A Sense of Entitlement is now up and running.
Notthemom, I could swear you just tried to leave a comment/or did leave a comment on the Sense of entitlement post but I can’t find it to approve it so I thought maybe you’d like to do it again. ? I don’t know what happened but I can’t find it, and wonder if I somehow accidentally deleted it by mistake. Oops my bad if that happened.
Excellent post! I totally agree with the point you made about children spending money on things that they want instead of things that they need. Sometimes tough love from parents is necessary for kids to realize that they need to set financial priorities so that they will be able to sustain themselves in the future.
I love this post. My husband and I often listen with amazement to some of our acquaintances who are over 70 and are still taking care of their unmarried children who are still living at home.
We stopped asking them why they continue because we are talking to deaf ears. One of these acquaintances went back to work to pay for her daughter’s car because the daughter quit her paying job to “start a business” that didn’t work out.
Hi Simon,
I’ve never been able to understand how so many parents have the belief that to be a good parent means making things as “easy” on their kids as possible, including giving their grown children money while they spend their own money on frivolous expenditures. Hard work, learning how to budget their money, and a lot of elbow grease teaches children how to be independent from parents. Not parents giving hand outs.
Hi, me again. I felt guilty about that last incident w/my daughter, so things went back to the same o same o, in a way. Only this time, every time my daughter asks for money, I ask her to help us in some way, like mow the lawn or pull weeds in the garden. On very few occasions she will come and help out, but most of time, the day she is suppose to come help she will call and reschedule. When the rescheduled day comes it is either raining or my husband or I have already mowed the lawn due to necessity, or some convenient thing keeps her from it. With her, it is 99% all take and no give. She is 23 years old. I love my only child dearly and my paternal instint is extremely powerful but I know she is using us and taking us for granted. I have now declared silent war on this. I am an excellent accountant on paying all of our bills but I am about to become (accidently) forgetful when it comes to her bills. This will cause problems/more likely a break up, with my husband, and I am willing to go there b/c I am not going to let her dominate our finances or my financial decisions. He will know I wasn’t forgetful, he will know I did it on purpose. I am fourtysix and have been a hourswife for many years, but I have good office skills. Still, no one will want to hire a person my age, yet I must do this. Any advice might be helpful.
Hi Adora, the only way this situation is going to change is when you stop giving your daughter money and you stop paying her bills. Stop enabling your daughter. It is not harsh to require grown children to take care of their own responsibilities financially or otherwise. It is called being an adult.
Parents have to remember that it’s not all about them. It is not about feeling guilty or making things easier on their kids than the parents had.
Guilt trips are intended to work well on parents, and grown children are notorious for trying to make parents feel guilted into paying for this and that and getting kids out of their self-made problems including bailing them out of jail, paying their bills, paying their auto insurance, etc.
The problem is: Parents are allowing their grown children to manipulate and guilt parents into continuing the freeloading and money handouts.
Stop giving grown children money. Stop enabling adult, grown children. It is not being harsh. It is being a parent and requiring grown children to stand on their own two feet like they should and need to as adults.
I kind of agree. I believe that the primary purpose of a parent is to teach children to teach themselves how the world works. The world is so many things to so many people, and while I believe that my view is correct, I want my children to discover and rediscover “the way the world works” over and over again.
Hi Lin,
Back in Feb. I wrote you and the blog was entitled Wish he’s listened. Well, one month after that, I wish I’d listened. Our son came to us and asked again to help (aka enable) him with credit cards that were going to take him to court. We consolidated his bills and lent him 16k. We cancelled all his credit cards and closed his checking account. For SIX months he brought his check to us weekly and we paid his bills. In just 4 months he paid back 3k and we were feeling pretty confident he finally figured it out.
The following 2 months he started to use a credit (that was one of ours) that was to be only used for GAS and started spending out of control. In two months he charged $1800 that was not gas purchases. His pay was able to cover the charge but left us without any extra to apply to the loan. We took the gas charge and then started giving him cash for his weekly $ and gas. All along I realized while handling his money we would have to give him car repair money and anything else he demanded as long as we were handling his finances. He threatened a few times that he would not bring his check over if we did not give him money for what he thought was an essential.
We wrote him a letter telling him we were done handling his check. We told him we wanted a payment monthy towards the 13k he owes us. In one month he has bought a used car from a co worker and says he will definately pay him monthly for the car till its paid off. He already got a new credit card and bounced a check that he had written against the account for a 1 year old parking ticket. Obviously he has already maxed out the credit card.
He is unaware that he will be getting a sizeable inheritance in one year when he turns 25. My uncle who is controlling it will be calling me and not him to pick up the bonds. This is to keep him in line and not to know he has a potential bailout. Believe me he would already have a loan against the money if he knew.
Since we let him have his check, he has visited only once to pick up mail. He obviously does not want a relationship. He continues to give his girlfriend over $700 for a horse she has. He has not given us anything. Do we leave him be and stopped reaching out for a relationship? Do we ask him for money every month to pay the loan? Should we continue to pay on the loan or take the money out of our savings and pay the loan off. My husband thinks we should get keep the loan going and just pay the interest only and ask him every month for the minimum. Lastly do we force him to surrender the inheritance when he recieves it. I feel he signed a contract and he should live up to his word. Actually I have thought about getting a legal judgement against him.I do however feel the money is second to the fact we don’t have a relationship. Money can not buy a relationship, this I have learned. Honestly I don’t think he even cares about the fact we are his family. I know this is long but any advice would be appreciated. Believe me, I WILL listen and I will NEVER make this mistake again. I just question what our next move should be.
TAKE HIM TO COURT!!
He needs to understand he is accountable for that money!
Taking him to court does NOT mean you do not love him.
I am taking my son to court for visitation of my Grandson. I saw him for the first time in 8 months on a bogus restraing order he came up with proventing me to see my Grandson.
I love him dearly but, We see what he is doing is wrong! He neds to learn his lesson, as yours!
PUT YOUR FOOT DOWN!
Allowing him to get away scott free from owning up to his responsibility of paying you back is enabling him. He obviously think’s just because you are his parents, He’s “entitled”…. Well, so are you! You are entitled to get your money back, go get it!
Faith~
Ohhhhhh Debbie…………………………..
I remember the “wish he’d listened” discussions very well. I’m not going to ‘beat you up’ over this; you’ve learned a very hard lesson on what I’ve been talking about in all these articles about “helping” or “enabling” grown adult children.
Society is and has been dealing with an Entitlement Epidemic for a very long time now, and parents and grown children are really feeling the effects.
Debbie, you and your husband must take steps to ensure you will get your money back. I would strongly recommend that you talk to an attorney to see what legal steps can be taken to make sure that IF (I should really say WHEN) your son decides NOT to pay you back, that there are legal ways to ensure you get your money back. Perhaps there is a legal way to get your money back FIRST before handing over the remainder of the inheritance to your son. I don’t know, but I’d sure as heck be looking into that. Do NOT rule out taking him to court! He may be your son, your flesh and blood, but he’s not thinking about that while spending all his money and not paying back his own parents! Put aside any emotional nonsense like, “But he’s my own son”. You are his parents, and he doesn’t seem to give a flip about that, does he?
You can bet, as you’ve said, that your son will spend the inheritance before he’s had a chance to get smart about money and his spending habits and you and your husband (and your money) will be out of luck.
The fact that your son is currently “not having a relationship” with you and is basically pouting like a child should make things crystal clear that he’s doing whatever he pleases and will continue to do. As long as you allow it. Let him pout, let him avoid visiting, let him try to manipulate you emotionally by not calling etc. It’s a game he’s playing, and if you don’t stand up against it, he will laugh himself to the bank (with your money) knowing he “won” the pathetic emotional game over his own parents.
Talk to an attorney today! Get tough and get MAD! Do NOT let him get away with this! Pick up the phone and call an attorney right now.
Thank you for your advice. I just called my son and asked if he were dropping by tonight with the payment and he said not tonight and don’t call me at work. I want to give him a chance to pay us back (next Joke!) because I don’t want it to be said by my husband, that we did not give him a chance to make payments. Remember he just got his control of his check back 30 days ago.
Is is fair to wait one more month and then tell him either he pays or he is going to court? Should I just tell him right away, either pay or go to court. He did pay back some of the 16k by paying 3 of it. Oh, I forgot to mention that he still owes us 7,000 from a signed loan 2 years ago. We reminded him of that loan when we sent him the letter. I know my husband will want to give him the benefit of the doubt and give him more time to see what he does. I am just so hurt because he held my hand as I wrote those checks to all his cards and misc and kept saying thankyou over and over and how much he did not deserve this but again thank you. I would love to just about choke him at this point. I was made such a fool of him.
Debbie, your son owes you $23,000.00
His paying $3k doesn’t even come close to registering since it really means your son initially owed you 26,ooo.00 and he’s busy doing the same-oh-same-oh of maxing up the credit cards. He hasn’t learned anything from your efforts to “help” him. He pays you 3k, then immediately goes back to his old ways of buying and buying and owes his own parents 23000!
How long is your husband willing to believe in the ‘give him the benefit of the doubt’ scenario? What would have to happen before your hubby would finally decide enough is enough? The two of you filing bankruptcy? The two of you having nothing to live on as a retired elderly couple? What is the “final straw” for your hubby? Is there a final straw?
I don’t know how the inheritance thing works. I don’t know if, since your uncle is planning on calling you to pick up the bonds and not your son, I don’t know if there is a way to legally get back whatever your son hasn’t yet paid back from the inheritance money before he has a chance to blow it all. At least speak to an attorney on a consultation basis with key questions about what your legal rights are to get your money back. The 23000.00 that your son owes you would really help you and your husband, and you deserve and need to get the money back.
I know the exact amount does not matter, but he owes us 20k. It was originally 16 plus 7 and he paid 3 of it already. Of course, when I controlled his check, money was being paid to us. He just started getting smaller check because his hours were being cut. His spending increased and I had less and less to work with. As soon as he had control back, he took on extra hours at work.
Money is the root of all evil. Our son knows we are finacially set. We are bill free and have substancial saving. He knows that because when we forced him to take student loans (failing grades!) we had to write our income down and other financial info. My husband loves his son and does not want to bring legal action. I on the other hand am ripped at his disrespect. What we have is thru hard work and he has no right to it. He expects he will make payments. I want to be reasonable right to the end s but I also don’t want to continue to enable. So what time frame is reasonable and do I warn him today or next month that legal action will be our next step.
Debbie, I had forgotten you mentioning previously that you and your hubby are financially set, so that’s a good thing for sure. Whew!
The time frame of a month sounds reasonable to me. Do you by chance have a written and signed “contract” of some kind for your son to repay the loan to you, or is it just an oral agreement? I would think that a signed legal “contract” document of some kind listing the debt total, payment amounts and due date etc with a note at the bottom saying that if he defaults on his payments even one month that you will take legal action might help to get him to pay you back, but it also might cause him to try and “call your bluff”.
The letters to him are good, but if you have anything in writing with his signature showing he agrees he owes the debt etc and his plan to pay it back, that would be helpful to you as well. Oral agreements are really hard to prove. Good luck Debbie, I really hope your son will be responsible and pay you back, whether or not you “need” the money is irrelevant. A loan is a loan to be re paid.
Man, your son has been really milking your bank account, your generosity and your emotions. He is playing you guys big time. And seems to have no remorse for doing it either. You seem to see the light more than your hubby, he needs to wake up and smell the roses. This kid is a user.
Sorry to be so blunt, we have one at our house too but not nearly to that extent. Ours can’t seem to keep a job for long, spends all his money on partying and doesn’t even pay the measly bills his dad has asked him to pitch in on. (about $60/mo) PLUS he pays no rent! I am his dad’s girlfriend, and apparently don’t have much say in it.
I have written in before about this kid, he’s 20, and going nowhere. He’s been here for 6 months and has nothing to show for it. He has saved nothing. Talks about buying motorcycles and trucks and TV’s and furniture on the ‘payment plan’ but only makes about $10 an hour. (Plus I am sure his credit is shot already). He ‘expects’ family to help him, he will promise to ‘work it off’ (what he owes his dad and his Gramma who fronted him some $$) but rarely gets around to that. He avoids us because we might ask him to do soemthing I think. Although he HAS been around a lot lately, because he is jobless again and BROKE.
He crashed and totaled the newer car he had, that he was behind on payments and insurance…he actually got OUT of it that way…but then talked about financing again! He has no clue. The insurance company had to hound him to send in the paperwork so they could pay off wherever the car was financed (and was co-signed by his mother-who I hope has learned a valuable lesson)
The bank is hounding him too, he has been overdrawn for weeks.
His dad will NOT kick him out. The kid doesn’t take his jobs seriously, because, well, he has a roof over his head and food so what’s the big worry? I say give him a timeline (like, 3 months) to get it together, and get his own place (with some roommates or whatever) and quit sponging! Grow up! MAKE him grow up.
We have all had to live that way, when I was young I usually had 3-5 roomies, we partied and were irresponsible but we were ON OUR OWN and I never asked my parents for anything.
Don’t kids want to be independent any more? WTF?
Thank you again Lin! I did get BOTH loans signed by him. We listed to the penny what the loan was applied to and each creditor we paid. We even gave him an emergency fund for car repairs added in. Both times he blew threw it.
Unfortunately we did not set a time frame. He was suppose to pay $600 a month but he kept spending and making less and less. It left me no choice because all I could think of was how responsible we were being forced to be in case his car failed. Then all the other letters of families helping with grandchildren had me thinking it never will end till I make it end.
My husband was out of work during this time, luckily his company rehired him 10 months later and financially we actually came out ahead due to severances and unemployment. Even with the 10 months of uncertainty, he felt no shame asking for the help.
We have always been there for our children on every level. We just never knew when to say no. You are right, it does not matter if we need the money back, what matters is he was not entitled to it. I will wait it out and then I will tell him we are going to seek action. I will keep you posted. Thank you ever so much Lin and also to Faith. Great Advice, now to listen!!!
The problem is the opposite for me. I left home as soon as I graduated from high school to join the military. I’m saving my own money; my car is paid for; and I have a full ride to college when I get out. My stepmother makes 80 gs a year. She doesn’t save any of it, and when something extra comes up, she asks me for money. She thinks I will be providing financial support when she reaches old age.
Malicoy, you’re not alone in this problem with your step-mother. Many families are struggling with the responsibilities of Caring for Aging Parents as a Family, which includes questions that need to be discussed openly and honestly with parents well ahead of the period of time where “help” may be needed.
Children certainly should not enable aging/elderly parents either, but there are many things to consider in regards to what the children/family responsibility is towards caring for parents in their advancing years.
I would highly recommend (If you haven’t already) that you discuss with your step-mother the importance of her having money set aside for when the time comes that she is needing help as an elderly/infirm person, and living within her means right now.
If she is spending and spending without thinking much of the future, you and other close family members may want to have a frank discussion with her about the “burden” that is being placed on you and others by her spending habits and the need for her to focus her attention on financially preparing for the time in her life when she’ll need (and want) help to care for her when unable to care for herself.
In the meantime, talk with her about the need for her to live within her means and not be calling to ask you for money. You’re trying to build your adult life and be independent, and she needs to be responsible for her own choices about money, and you very likely will have to put your foot down with her and tell her No More Money.
Feeling totally desperate and overwhelmed this morning, I googled “therapy for parents of adult children” and found this website. Just reading some of your letters makes me feel not so alone.
Situation: adult son (42), who has always been terrible with finances, but successful in his job and has never asked me for money, divorced this summer.
Problem: he went from a 6-figure income to a very, very low income. Settlement based on his large salary last year; consequently, there was no way he could meet the obligations. He is facing foreclosure, loss of car, behind in child support – you name it!
I’m retired (2 years), have been very thrifty all my life, done without many things, in order to have a good retirement and not be a burden to my children. Like Debbie, my son knows I have money saved, and is great at giving me the guilt trip for not helping him more. So far I’ve given him $8K cash and stupidly signed a $15K loan (my name only since his credit is so poor). He’s paid back $1K cash, and made 3 payments on the loan which is current. He now wants to add another $5K to the loan to buy him some time (keep from foreclosing, child support, car payment). That will add another $165 to his already $500/month loan. He can barely make that, how will he handle the extra? I lay awake worrying about how I will pay off the loan – it would take all my “rainy day/travel money.” I gues that is what I’m struggling with – I worked hard and saved; he worked hard and spent, even though I cautioned him all his life to have a “rainy day fund.”
Question: what do I do? Do I bite the bullet one more time and add $5K to the loan? I feel so terrible about what has happened to him and really want to help, but I don’t want to put myself in harm’s way either. Somehow, I see this added money as a band-aid, and in a couple of months, there will be something else. HELP!
Hi Jean,
Your 42 year-old son has not yet learned the importance of savings, but chooses to spend, spend, spend. Earned a “high salary” but didn’t put any money away for emergencies; no emergency fund. Now you have become his emergency fund. He’s 42 years old no less. Hmmm.
Sounds much like what some other parents are saying doesn’t it? You worked hard and saved but he worked hard and spent. The Entitlement Epidemic strikes again.
Jean, no more money. Not one red cent. Children (grown or not) know what “buttons” to push to get a reaction out of parents, and he’s pushing yours hard. He’s been used to his “high salary” lifestyle and now has to come to terms with the reality that his life has changed and he has himself to look at in the mirror knowing that he didn’t do what he surely knew was necessary to not find himself in this situation.
If you “help” this time again, it will continue. You can bet on it. He’ll spend his money on whatever….., and come to you for more and more
helpmoney. Each time a parent gives into the guilt trips and manipulations children so easily dish out, it teaches kids that guilt trips work, and they keep doing it over and over and each time mom/dad says no the next time, the “kids” Up the Anty and pour on heavier guilt trip nonsense until parents finally give in again. And again.Don’t fall for it. Your son is not going to starve; he’s not going to die from having to make serious changes to his lifestyle in order the make ends meet. He will have to learn how to say no to himself when he’s struggling between Wants and Needs. It’s called being an adult and living like an adult.
There’s a quote that I’ve heard many times that I’m reminded of: “Lack of planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part”.
How true that quote is when it comes to grown children asking for money or “help” over and over and over…., because THEY chose to not be money smart. Your son needs to discover what Money Management means in a very real sense.
Do not give your son another penny. Safeguard your retirement. You EARNED it yourself; you worked hard for it yourself. He needs to do the same, and it won’t happen if you open your wallet again and again.
No. More. Money.
Hi Lin,
Its been nearly 2 months since I have written regarding my son. I have some good news to report. It took his childhood cat of 14 years to get very sick with liver problems, to put a family a family back together. His girlfriend works at a vet so she did extensive treatment including an IV for two weeks. They took care of all the expenses and the cat has completely turned around. It meant my son visited for the past 45 days in a row.
He had problems with his car and I just let him know he was on his own. He figured it out without borrowing any money. He paid 3 months of the loan with us and showed up for his sisters 16th birthday party and to decorate the tree. That is a first in 3 years. He comes to dinner once a week too.
I decided that the loan was important but not worth bringing up every second. Thankfully it will not affect our financial situation. That is not to say we are going to not hold him to the terms of the loan just not to make it the only criteria in having a relationship. I think constantly bringing it up and always advicing him on his life , made him uneasy. By stepping away and not helping him changed the relationship from banker to parents. He actually wants to share whats going on in his life.
I know that we can never give in and begin the enabling trend but we can be there to support emotionally, share good times and be proud of how far we have come. Thanks Lin!
Debbie, that is great news! Isn’t it wonderful when adult kids take the initiative in their own lives and actually begin acting like adults in every way? I’m so glad you’ve been able to visit with your son much more than before, and that by stepping away and allowing him to deal with his own situation and figure things out on his own, you have helped him more than by just giving him money over and over. Good for you! Take a bow!
I can’t believe I am sending this email. I have never sent an email of this type, but I am totally stymied and would love an objective, qualified opinion. It concerns my husband’s insistence (strongly against my objections) to support his niece (about 25 years old) and her two young children.
Background: my husband & I married 6 years ago. We were both 50 yr. old and self-sufficient. We both have demanding but fairly well paying jobs, in different states, so we commute on weekends. When we married, I believe that we had agreed to move towards “downsizing†our workloads, finances, lifestyle and related stress. In terms of work stress, I am extremely conscious of the toll on me, but my husband refuses to discuss his work stress. However, he has twice, in the past few years, run to the emergency room with what he felt were life threatening events. They were just stress. (of course he denies they were stress, but the doc’s found nothing wrong). I have told him I cannot continue to endure the stress of his stress, and what is needed is downsizing the workloads. We are not getting any younger. But, now he says he wants to support a dependent family ad infinitum, is his preference.
A year and a half ago, my husband installed this niece and her two children in a rental house that he owns. In fact, he had told me that he planned to sell the rental house as part of the downsizing, but instead he installed the niece and her family there. She has been paying the basic carrying costs on the house with a small inheritance that is rapidly running out. She is not prepared to pay for repairs, car events, and all the other contingencies of life. When the inheritance runs out, she will be flat broke other than minimal income from the job-of-the-day.
When my husband informed me that he was installing this niece in the house, in order to “help†her, I strongly objected. My husband became completely irrational. It got so bad, he actually went to a lawyer and filed for divorce. This was over about a 10 day period between when he announced the niece was moving in, and filing the divorce. It was amazing. The prior weekend I had received a lovely anniversary card and gift from him and thought all was fine. I thought we were having a strong disagreement about the niece, but he seemed to experience it as some kind of fatal betrayal of his family by me. Eventually we discussed it, and agreed to cancel the divorce action, totally separate our finances, and set a 3-year timetable for the niece to live in the house. At the 3-year mark he agreed that he would dispose of the house and no longer subsidize the niece. (I thought that would mean selling the house, but now he has a scheme to give it to a sibling, with niece & co. still in there. Am sure he has not discussed this idea with the sibling. Sibling would be crazy to agree to such a deal.)
Niece is as you can imagine, and no way on the road to responsible adulthood by any definition.
Should I be setting aside my lawyer $ now, or is there a good prognosis that my husband will be able to release this relationship as he has promised (sworn up & down)? Unfortunately, he is unable to answer questions or discuss specifics related to the problem, which is of great concern to me. He has “no ideas.†I do not believe he has ever informed the niece of the timetable, or discussed her work habits or the true cost of living, with her. When I bring up such mundane subjects, he gets irrational, and communication comes to a complete halt. Other than this area, we get along well. P.S. we once went to counseling together. The counselor decided he was not hearing what she was saying and recommended that he get his own counselor, preferably a male. He completely refuses to do this and gets irrational if I bring it up.
I feel like I am married to a cocaine addict. He insists there is no problem, and that this aspect of his life is none of my business. I strongly disagree. Please advise. Thank you.
Hi Mary,
Wow, what a mess. It’s such a shame that your husband refuses to discuss these things rationally and calmly with his own wife, and actually come to a “meeting of the minds” so to speak.
The fact that he was willing to file for divorce as he did, that tells me straight-up that divorce is a definite possibility from his point of view. It’s like he’s saying loud and clear, “It’s my way or the highway”, and there is no room for discussion, differences of opinion, various options, opinions or suggestions.
This is your life Mary, and this is the man you are married to. Having already tried the counseling route, but still he’s not willing to make any changes. I can only assume that from his point of view, he’s thinking YOU are one that needs to make changes, not him.
To get to the point, I would absolutely suggest that you begin gathering your attorney’s fees, because from what you describe and his attitude about his obvious enabling, he has no intention whatsoever of stopping what he’s doing. And anything you say on the subject only infuriates him more. But you have every right to be concerned about what he’s doing. I mean, this is a marriage and in marriage couples need to discuss things and come to an agreement on decisions. He’s not willing to do that Mary. It’s HIS way or NO way. That is my opinion. Sorry.
Thank you, Lin!
Not that I love your message, but it is the truth, and it has been over a year since I have discussed this truth with anyone so directly (last one was the counselor!). It gets lonely alone in one’s head! My friends are supportive of course, but I try to avoid too much head-on tough stuff like this, over coffee…
It is absolutely true that the surface issue here is enabling, but the more important issue is ability to negotiate and willingness to compromise. I saw a really ugly side of my husband when he surprised me with those divorce papers, and that knowledge will never leave me. I was so taken by surprise, it took me awhile to formulate my position, but I did formulate it, and your comments are bringing me back to it. I told my husband that if he ever (EVER) files for divorce like that again, there will be no further discussion, the marriage will be over. Simple. We also made the 3-year agreement regarding the niece at that time, and I suspect you are correct, he has been counting on my backpedalling, and accomodating. I only bring up the topic of the niece infrequently, because I don’t want to get into a rut of unproductive arguing. However, recently I brought it up. Discussions did not go as well as I hoped. For whatever reason I thought he might have been coming to see the light about his niece, but I was wrong. That realization caused me to back up & figure out what I now needed to say. He may have gotten the message. He is trying to “discuss” and is trying very hard to calm the waters at this point.
There could be many reasons to modify the original 3-year agreement, but for me “keeping the peace” or “preserving the marriage” aren’t among them.
As a “mature” person, I do have the benefit of a lot of self-knowledge and life experience. I can grieve big time, and I hate it, but I will do this rather than forfeit what truly matters to me (self-respect). That knowledge is very certain, because it has been tested and it has held, absolutely.
Thank you for your reminder. Whether my husband has negotiated in good faith remains to be seen. My anxiety, based on the history to date, and the tremendous sadness I feel at the thought of possibly having to let go of the marriage, is what eats at me now. But the future is always an unknown, in terms of what someone else will do, and how things will turn out. Divorce is definitely a possibility. Even if my husband does not fully appreciate what is at stake, or if he does not care, I am prepared to maintain my position on the matter. My lawyer fund has been carved out.
Thank you for reminding me of what is important. This will resolve, I will “get thru it” and I will come out the better for the whole thing. But I sure hate the process!!!
THANK YOU!!! You have made my day, BIG TIME!
Hi Mary,
I’m glad I could be of some help. It’s often beneficial to discuss troubling things with a neutral party, someone not directly involved, like fellow family members and close friends. That often creates a whole new set of problems.
I often say to people “need creates motivation“, especially when it comes to enabling parents trying to figure out how to stop enabling (or “helping”) grown adult children.
I also say “past behavior is indicative of future behavior”. The easiest way to know if someone will change their ways (after much arguing and fighting) within marriages or relationships is by looking at their past and present behavior and/or attitude. I would like to think that your husband would “see the light” and come to his senses, but I truly believe that both you and I know that isn’t likely to happen, which means you are left with difficult personal decisions for your own life and future. Only you can make those for yourself, and whatever your decision ultimately is, I wish you all the best that life has to offer.
I can agree with this with the exception of the parent who asks their 16 year old son to drop out of high school and get a full time job to help pay her rent. The one who was supporting his own mother instead of getting the high school diploma he desperately needs to get a decent job or go to college in today’s world.
My husband is this person. He was asked by his mother to drop out at 16. He began working full time at his grandfathers company only learning that trade. When he was young, his teachers said he may be dyslexic and his mom didn’t want the label put on him, so he never received help. His reading and writing skills are still horrible because of this and is having trouble passing a GED test. He can’t go to college until he gets his GED. At age 21, he married me and we had a baby. Our son was unplanned but we love him as much as we ever could.
Thankfully, my mom has taken us in until we are in a financial situation that we can rent a small apartment. We live within our means. We spend no money on wants other than birthdays. We even make homemade low-cost gifts for holidays (which are made fun of by his family and we are told not to bring again – that we need to spend at least $20 on each person in a family with over 20 people at Christmas). We try our best to scrimp and save – we clip coupons, we plan our meals and shop according to the weekly ads. We only have 1 vehicle.
My husband has been working for his grandfather still and looking for other employment as he is paid far less than his co-workers who do the same job with less experience. Who wants a hire someone without a GED or diploma? Especially in this market, they are able to pick and choose since so many qualified people are unemployed. His grandfather stopped paying him (and the other employees) a few months ago. They have been giving a 40 hr check once a month and still requiring them to work full time. Finally they agreed to lay him off. He is drawing unemployment, which barely pays for our food and electricity. My mom cannot afford to pay all of the utilities with us in the house – she does what she can but we aren’t her responsibility.
He found an opportunity to go to truck driving school for 3 weeks at a reputable school and they will find him a job – guaranteed! We thought this was an amazing opportunity. Unfortunately, our credit is not good because of the missed paychecks in the past months. We didn’t have much credit before now anyways. My mom is unable to co-sign because of her income to debt ratio. My mother-in-law is able to co-sign but refuses to do so because we “got ourselves into this situation”.
So while I think in most cases, yes, I agree with you. But in cases where the parents didn’t do their part, I do think they owe it to their adult children. We aren’t even asking her for money (although we did once ask for $25 to take the GED test and she refused – she is in a financial position now that she is remarried to help). The repayment for the schooling loan would actually be coming directly from his first paychecks. She doesn’t care. She would rather our family starve than help because we “got ourselves into this”.
Hi Tiffany,
Subscribed readers of this site know how I feel about the subject of what parents owe their adult children or don’t “owe”, and anytime someone uses that term to explain what they believe a parent should or shouldn’t do to “help” grown children, it makes the hair on the back of my neck stand straight up from frustration.
I don’t know the reasoning behind your mother-in-law asking her son to leave high school a few years ago to help pay the bills, so I won’t criticize her for making that decision or second-guess her reasons for such a request. I have very limited knowledge or experience about dyslexia and the problems experienced by those who are dyslexic, other than what you’ve already stated in regards to difficulty with reading and writing, but I can understand the difficulties your husband must face in trying to find gainful employment under such circumstances.
That being said…, I can also see where your mother-in-law is coming from with her refusals to “help”. You and your husband made some personal choices that bring about what I call “natural consequences”. You two chose to get married. You two also chose to have a child at a time in your lives when you’re not financially stable enough to provide for yourselves on your own, let alone as a young married couple, independent of any help from parents.
I say you “chose” to have a child, rather than saying you had an “unplanned pregnancy”, because men and women either do what’s necessary to prevent pregnancy from occurring or they don’t. Either way, it’s still a choice, and the natural consequences that come from such a choice are quite costly. Who should pay for the choices made by seemingly mature, grown adult kids? The so-called mature, grown adult kids; that’s who should pay.
I don’t see anything within your comment that suggests that you are working full-time or part-time to try and help yourself, but that your husband has been working a low wage job and is trying to find a better paying job despite not having a high school diploma or GED. I’m pretty confident that it didn’t come as a complete shock to you that your husband had no high school diploma or GED to help him find a good job before you got married, but you chose to get married anyway.
That is what is commonly referred to as “putting the cart before the horse”. Doing things in the wrong order and then wonder why things aren’t going very well. Kids need to finish high school, go to college (if at all possible), get settled into a job/career of their choosing, establish themselves financially and independently of the parents, get married (if they so choose) and then start a family (if they want children). Not the other way around.
I’m glad your “mom is unable to co-sign because of her income to debt ratio”, because it would be a huge mistake on her part to do so. Your mother-in-law is right in that you two got yourselves into this situation, and you’ll both have to work very hard to get yourselves out of it. The assertion that your mother-in-law “doesn’t care”, because she refuses to give in and co-sign a high-risk loan, is ridiculous. As long as you and your husband do what’s necessary to bring home a paycheck, no one is going to starve.
Maybe, just maybe, the struggles and stress you’re experiencing will prove to be a positive motivator for both of you to work hard to provide for yourselves and your child, and the lessons you will have learned may help prevent your child from growing up to make the same exact mistakes in judgment.
Okay, I get your idea – kids should pay their parents bills before they get an education and then pay their own bills without an education when they become an adult.
Oh, and I’m in college full time. I’ve looked for employment, but nothing will pay me enough to pay daycare without experience or college education.
Tiffany,
You’re obviously wanting me to criticize and judge your mother-in-law for the choice she made to have her son quit school and go to work full time. As I said, “Kids need to finish high school, go to college (if at all possible), get settled into a job/career of their choosing, establish themselves financially and independently of the parents, get married (if they so choose) and then start a family (if they want children).”
That alone should have told you that a parent should never ever have their child quit school and just work to help the family pay bills. In my view, it would have made more sense for your husband to continue and graduate from high school and perhaps work part time in the evenings and weekends to help out some, rather than quitting school altogether just to work.
Your mother-in-law isn’t here to defend herself or explain her decision, and she may have had what she felt were very good reasons to do what she did. How do I know this? I know because my own parents took me out of high school (religious reasons from their beliefs), and their reasons for doing so seemed reasonable to them at the time. It didn’t and hasn’t affected me at all in getting good paying jobs, nor did it affect my ability to learn a trade and establish myself in a career that pays well and get a few years of college under my belt, but that was many many years ago and things are different now.
Tiffany, you and I could go back and forth umpteen times about the choice your mother-in-law made with her son, but it won’t get us anywhere. For whatever the reasons were, like it or not, it happened. He could have made the choice to go back and finish high school on his own and go to college, but he chose to get married and have a child despite not having a complete education, and now he’s struggling to make enough money for the three of you to live on your own.
Many colleges provide free daycare (or virtually free) for students attending college to help. With a program like that in place, kids are able to go to college and work too, with the parents taking turns caring for the child while the other parent is in school and vice versa.
You can spend your life blaming your husband’s mother for the choice made and believing she OWES him this or that as an adult. The problem is, from the “kid” point of view, what kids think parents owe them starts at a very young age and throughout the teen years and adult years, and the expiration date for help or what is “owed” doesn’t exist in a kids mind. That’s an Entitlement Epidemic, not help.
Well, considering the fact that he had already been working a part time (28-30 hour per week) job at night after school, it just wasn’t good enough for her. He needed to pay the bills. She was using her child support money of his to pay for her clothes, shoes, hair, nails, etc.
Even after we were married, she was still needing our help with her bills. My husband was giving her money to help pay her bills because she wasn’t receiving child support anymore.
My husband has tried to go to school – for a degree you must have a GED or diploma. He is in classes to get a GED. He works 50-60 hours per week and goes to school 3 nights per week. I go to school 2 nights per week and do most of my schooling from the computer. The college does offer childcare but only for your classes – not to work.
I think you base your opinions too broadly. Parents don’t owe kids anything. That’s pretty broad. Instead, parent’s who raise their children correctly don’t owe their children. Parents who are being supported by their children most certainly do owe their child something.
This girl isn’t listening and doesn’t realize this is not a blog! this is a blog about the book. Did you read it? then, go boo-hoo to someone else and stop playing the victim!
I believe you are making up stories about this poor woman who is not hear to defend her self.
My son has done that to me on several occasions!
I’m not buying your story!
You want us to side with you when its obvious from your posts you want to humiliate your mother-in-law.
I have written before in regards to my son who has borrowed over and over again. Yes, I WAS the enabler and have learned a valuable lesson from it. On a continued bright note, our son is taking care of himself and has not borrowed anything since my last entry and will not borrow because we won’t be lending again. He is making payments on his existing loan with us.
I view Tiffany’s situation very different from my own. If her story is the truth, it is very sad that her husband was asked to quit school. I truly think they are working all the angles towards independence but they just need HELP to get there. I hope she looks toward her state assisted programs to get it or someone does rise up and HELPS them get on the right track.
I do not see a couple asking for hand out after handout. I see a couple asking for assistance to get on the track so that they can go on and make a life for themselves. I give you credit Tiffany for wanting more in your life for you and your child. Seek out the help from programs and continue your schooling. Stand tall and believe in yourself. With the right amount of determination…you will make it!!!!