Being a responsible parent is never an easy task, from the time our children first enter the world and well into adulthood, our job as parents to teach and train our children in all areas of life is often fraught with one obstacle after another, and parents need to know how to deal with the problems as they occur as well as prevent as many problems as possible.
Regular readers of Telling It Like It Is are likely familiar with previous articles where I have discussed the mounting entitlement issues so prevalent in society today, with adult children still living at home with mom and dad, and the struggles parents have in getting their adult children to be responsible financially, mentally and emotionally. For new subscribers and visitors, here are a list of the articles I’ve written that deal with money management, helping and enabling adult children, teenagers and yes, even very young children:
Getting adult children to be responsible for themselves in all areas of life is often hindered by well-meaning parents who want to “help” their children become independent or, “get back on their feet”, but instead come to realize later on that the help provided never seems to end.
Adult children continue to make poor choices and bad decisions regarding how they spend their money, then expect mom and dad to pick up the tab and continuously rescue them from experiencing the consequences of their choices and behaviors, wrongly thinking their parents are a 24-hour bank or ATM machine.
Enabling Adult Children
Adult children, some married with children of their own, are moving back home with their parents at an alarming rate, and shortly thereafter parents become frustrated when boundaries and rules are repeatedly broken, and requests for more money requires parents to dig deep into their life savings and retirement plans to the point where parents have gone broke helping their children.
Enabling occurs even when children are not living with the parents, with adult children and spouse working full-time jobs continuing to make regular phone calls to parents asking for money to pay utility bills because “It’s going to get shut off!”, or saying their “car is going to be repossessed” or the old standby, “We have no food in the house!”. My response would be, “I’m sorry to hear that but I can’t help you this time, and I have full trust and confidence that you will find a solution to the problem, and do what is necessary to make sure it doesn’t happen again”. Real NEED creates REAL motivation for change.
Not being an enabler myself, my message to parents is, “Just say no! Don’t give them anymore money and by all means, Kick them out of the house and change the locks!” I’ve heard from many parents who tell me their adult children are constantly asking for money “to pay bills”, while these “adults” are spending their own money on manicures, pedicures, Botox treatments, new clothes, expensive cell phones, concerts and sporting events, electronic gadgets and other luxuries, all while “there is no food in the house”.
Learn How To Let Go Of The Control
Enablers have to learn how to “let go” of their adult children, let go of the control and Co-Dependent tendencies that run rampant amongst enabling parents and their children, allowing their adult children to experience the consequences that go with making choices on their own.
Continuously rescuing adult children, paying their bills, giving them money, allowing them to live at home with the parents, shielding them from the realities of how the real world works has created an Entitlement society. Today’s society of teenagers and adult children have come to believe their parents “owe” them whatever their hearts desire, and if parents don’t put a stop to it and close the bank of mom and dad, the problems of entitlement are only going to get worse.
When your adult children ask you for money tell them, “I’m sorry but I can’t help you this time”. The next time they ask, repeat the same sentence. Do not give your adult children any more money! Able-bodied children, working or not, can and need to learn how to manage their own lives, and that cannot be accomplished as long as children know that parents are their personal “back up plan”.
Why would your children make the grownup decision to get smart with their money, when they know they can spend their own money frivolously on their extensive “want” list, knowing you will give them a handout time after time? Stop it and stop it now, before you find yourselves penniless in your elderly years with no financial means to take care of yourself.
How To Stop Enabling Adult Children
Children know what buttons to push with parents, especially when there are grandchildren being used as an excuse to get money from parents and grandparents, making it vitally important to learn how to stop enabling irresponsible adult children.
If your children have jobs of their own, no one is going to starve to death, and while their electric might be turned off due to bad choices, allowing them to experience the consequences of their own decisions really is helping them more than you may realize.
Oftentimes people in society equate enabling with alcoholics or drug abuse, with many books being written on how parents and family members can help these children and adults conquer their problems, but the overall subject of helping vs. enabling covers a wide range of relationship dynamics between parents and children, but without an equal number of books and resources.
Stop Enabling Your Adult Children
When Our Grown Kids Disappoint Us : Letting Go of Their Problems, Loving Them Anyway, and Getting on with Our Lives
Setting Boundaries With Your Adult Children As long as we continue to keep enabling our adult children, they will continue to deny they have any problems, since most of their problems are being “solved” by those around him. Only when our adult children are forced to face the consequences of their own actions—their own choices—will it finally begin to sink in how deep their patterns of dependence and avoidance have become. And only then will we as parents be able to take the next step to real healing, forever ending our enabling habits and behaviors.
The Enabler: When Helping Hurts the Ones You Love
Co-dependency of which enabling is a major element can and does exist in families where there is no chemical dependency. Angelyn Millers own experience is a dramatic example: neither she nor her husband drank, yet her family was floundering in that same dynamic. In spite of her best efforts to fix everything (and everyone), the turmoil continued until she discovered that helping wasn’t helping. Miller recounts how she learned to alter the way she responded to family crises and general neediness, forever breaking the cycle of co-dependency. Offering insights, practical techniques, and hope, she shows us how we can transform enabling relationships into healthy ones.
Toughlove
I’m a big believer in being a tough parent, setting guidelines and boundaries with children regardless of their age, and staying firm on what behaviors are or are not acceptable. Toughlove is not about being abusive towards our children, nor is it solely focused on children with drug or alcohol addictions, and I highly recommend this book for parents struggling with their children, teens and adult kids.
Are you an Enabler? Have you been struggling with the difficulties in trying to understand how to help your adult child but find yourself in the rather upsetting position of being an enabler? Do you understand that there is a difference between helping and enabling? What changes are you willing to make in letting go of the control over your children’s lives, so they can be independent and responsible financially, mentally and emotionally?
Further Reading:
Setting Boundaries With Your Adult Children
Support Groups for Parents with Grown Adult Children Living at Home with Parents
You know, I’ve really tried to enforce the “no entitlement” rule with my school-age children. I have an older sister in her 50′s, and my Mom STILL sends her money and enables her all the time. I don’t want to be that Mom. I want my kids to stand on their own two feet and be able to get through tough times on their own. It starts young.
Momo Fali, it really does start young, parents have to do everything possible to get kids to do what they are capable of doing, whether or not they want to do it. It’s called being a responsible adult.
I’m confused. Isn’t enabling cutting off the strings? Maybe I have the terms backwards.
Hi RT, enabling is when parents DON’T cut the apron strings, financially or otherwise. Constantly giving grown kids money, paying their bills for them, etc. Yep, you have the terms backwards, but it’s all cleared up now.
We raised our children in a small town in PA. We constantly told them, as they were growing up, that we wanted them to go away to college and that we insisted that they move away from their hometown, at least for a few years, after college.
Our youngest, now a successful engineer, was very angry with us during high school because she wanted to come right back to the town after college to be with her high school friends. Now she appreciates what we did for her.
HM, you make a good point. Grown adult children may very well become angry at their parents when the hand-outs stop.
Kids may even increase the level of manipulation on their parents, or try to “guilt” parents into giving into their demands for money.
Staying strong and tough will have large dividends in the end, with children realizing what parents did for them by not making things so easy for kids. Very good point HM, thanks for bringing that up.
Lin – Setting the right expectations for our children seems very important. We have to teach them to stand on their own two feet. When we constantly come to their aid, they never learn to depend on themselves. I have young children, but I hope they will grow up to be independent, responsible adults. Great article!
Hi Jeff – you are exactly right. Parents have to begin teaching children how to manage money and finances from a very early age, continuing througout the teen years, so children can be independent and responsible as adults. Thanks for contributing your thoughts!
My grandmother in law does this for her sons, anytime they mess up she covers right away, and then acts like there isn’t a problem. It has become a problem because she covers up for her son who is an acholic. I think she should work on getting him help, but she just tells him everything is going to be ok. Sometimes you have to be tough.
Hi Rachel,
Enabling really is a big problem for many parents and even grandparents, and it’s such a shame too because children won’t learn how to take care of themselves if parents/grandparents continue doing too much for their kids.
Thank you also for the email message, I will respond promptly to your question/request.
I agree that its important for our adult children to go out on thier own. I also know that its very costly and nearly impossible for them to buy a home of thier own. I would have no problem with an adult child living home as long as they are being financiallly responsible and saving as much as they can.
I have always told my children that this is the only FREE ride that they get. There will never be a landlord or a bank that will allow you to live rent or mortgage free. Take everyday that they live home and use it wisely. SAVE, SAVE, SAVE or get out. We asked our son to leave when we realized he was not using our home to his betterment. How quickly he found out how expensive it is to be an adult!!!
The maternal instinct kicks in when you see your children struggling. When they were small, we would jump up if we saw them fall. They will grow up fast when they are figuring it out for themselves and and even faster when we let them fall.
Children today definately have a disillusional sense of entitlement. Some of them need life to slap them in the face to wake them up. Thankfully there are some who figure it out early on and follow the rules of sensiblilty. As much as my son has tested me over the years, I have two daughters that just “got it” early on. There is hope in all of them!!!! Thank you again Lin for guiding me thru to the day I said, ” no help yourself, I’m done!! So far, so good!!!
Hi Debbie,
I’m glad my advice has been helpful to you. I see examples of entitlement happening all the time, and it’s so frustrating to see how grown up children are abusing their parents in this way.
This is some great information. I think my in-laws need to read this about their adult children to save them some heartache.
Hi Susan, thanks for stopping by. Feel free to email a link to them, or print off these articles about helping and enabling adult children. Too many parents are losing their life savings by enabling adult children, and end up broke themselves in their elderly years.
I guess it all depends on how you bring them up and the values that you instil upon them when young. Anyway, saying No is often tough becasue as a parent you would always be inclined to help, however old they may be.
T.M, it has a lot to do with how children are raised, that’s for sure. But, when grown children are treating parents like a bank and not being responsible for themselves financially or in other ways, parents have to be tough and say No, or the “help” offered will never, ever end. That’s why 35 year old “kids” are still living with parents. Some are even over the age of 40 and still living with mom and dad. That’s ridiculous!
I have once again spent the weekend in bed with phones off the hook. My son – 28 – constasntly calls for money -use of the car – he always has a reason – but I never see any results – I bought him a bike since a car is out of the question.
I am terrified of what will happen to him if I cut of the money etc – I believe drugs are involved. He gets a job – does great for a few weeks – then something happens and he looses his job – it just goes on and on.
Everyone tells me just to say :No More: – but it kills me – I feel like I just want to close my eyes and sleep forever.
Sue
Sue, it’s of course very obvious that the subject of helping vs. enabling is an extremely difficult one for you personally. I’m going to email you privately so be sure to check messages in your spam filter, as my email may be filtered there. Talk to you soon.
lin – did you ever reply – I just got home from work – all day long I die if I get a call – he says he needs rent money – his car has been repossed – what do I do about all the mail and phone calls I keep getting from debt collectors? -Right now he is with an old girlfriend – he says she is going to kick him out – I told him he cannot come and live with me – he wants to use my car – last time he kept it for 3 days – he has stolen from me and the story goes on and on – do I need medicience to get it all out of my head? I am on Zoloft now – but I could burst into tears at the drop of a hat.
Sue
Hi Sue,
I would strongly suggest that you talk to your employer about setting up a way to block/filter calls from your son at your job. Perhaps if your employer or supervisor got on the phone when your son calls at the job and the boss tells him in no uncertain terms that personal calls such as this are NOT allowed at the work place and really makes it clear, maybe your son will get a clue and stop bugging you at work.
Is there Caller ID at your job? Is there anyone else who can/would take incoming calls for awhile? Can you block calls on the work phone from certain numbers? You should really talk to your boss and explain at least some of the problem, so your boss doesn’t get upset about the constant personal calls that are stressing you, which would obviously have an effect on your work performance. You don’t want this mess to cost you your job.
Keep saying no, and stick to it. Don’t give your son any explanations about why; you don’t owe him any explanation about why you’re saying no. Don’t give in. Each and every time you give in, it teaches your son that if he puts up enough of a fight over the money or “help” that you’ll eventually give in. Trust me, you don’t want to give in. Ever.
There are two books I highly recommend in this article:
Setting Boundaries with Your Adult Children
and
When Our Grown Kids Disappoint Us
Hang in there Sue, keep up the fight – it is worth it.
Try on the thought, “If I were dead, what would my adult child do?” and use it as a measuring stick because most likely you will die before them and then they will have to figure life out.
Keep in mind we are doing them no favors even when we think we are, or when we think they will learn to make their own dinner, while we are feeding them under the table.
I’m not saying it is easy – but – if you can use that thought above as you pull up the moat for the future, you may be surprised how much easier it is on your thoughts. Each time you reinforce your own heart with the idea, it becomes easier and less Zoloft will be necessary. I wish I had sooner, too.
Been there/done that!
Geri
I have read with interest the comments from parents who just can’t say no to their adult children. I’m afraid my husband is also doing this because he can’t seem to stop helping his sons “too much.” My husband is still supporting his younger sone who has been attending college full time for many years and no degree. The older one has difficulties with jobs and owes us back rent and a large credit card debt. I love my husband, but I can’t stand to see what is happening to him or to his sons.
I would like for him to ask his older son to start paying us back for unpaid rent and credit card debt, and I would like to see his younger son finish college so he can get a job where he can be independent. It is costing so much that I’m afraid we will run out of money for our old age. What can I do to encourage my husband to allow his sons to become independent? I know this is the way he shows love, and he is very kind to everyone (he likes to help people including my kids), but I think in the end it will hurt instead of helping. It is difficult to say anything because I know it comes from his heart.
Hello Betty! You must be talking about step-children here, so that in itself creates a problem for you since some people feel that talking about children (that isn’t their biological child) is basically off limits.
Problem is, these “kids” aren’t children anymore; they’re grown adults, and the money being given is affecting you financially, and may have detrimental consequences when you are older and need a way to provide for your elderly years.
Many parents have good intentions. They truly want to help their children, but they don’t quite understand when the “helping” should stop and the now-grown “kids” be required to behave as adults. There is such a thing as helping without enabling, but once parents get into the habit of giving and giving and giving some more, they find themselves stuck.
Betty, I would suggest having a private conversation with your husband and ask him questions (very respectfully) about what his specific goals are in continuing to “help” his kids. Then, ask him (in response to his answers) what results has he seen by his efforts? Has his helping accomplished the goals of x,y,z? If so, how? If not, How? Ask him if he’s ever wondered if the amount of help he’s been giving has brought the results he hoped for?
Be sure to allow him time to reflect and think back on various situations where he said he’d “help” pay for something on the condition that so-and-so does…….what? Pays him back? Graduates? Graduates when, in 30 years? Gets his degree? When, in 40 years?
If I were you Betty, I’d be looking deeply into the financial numbers of how you and your husband are doing financially yourselves. I’d be looking at how much savings you have or don’t have. Stocks? CD’s? Real estate? etc. for when you retire, and then you can provide your husband concrete, written in black and white, what your current financial situation is…..vs. what is will/may look like if his “helping” continues as is. Ask him, how much “help” are you willing to give the kids when it’s obvious that all the money being handed out to the kids is likely to put you and your husband in the very same (or worse) financial situation that he’s trying to help the kids get out of. How would that settle in his mind and heart, knowing his helping put you and him in dire straits for your senior years.
Let me know how it goes, ok?
I have a 12 year old granddaughter. My daughter is a single parent. The father has been out of my granddaughter’s life since she was 2. She’s adhd, has a history of problems with other children, impulsive, distracted. This year in 7th grade she got into trouble a lot with skipping school, not doing homework, running away, talking back. She is now in a 1/2 way house. She doesn’t talk to her mom. She still talks to me because I’ve always spoiled her. It looks like I’ve enabled her behavior and I’m trying to try some tough love but it’s so hard for me. My daughter and I want to have a united front and let her reap the consequences of her behavior. She calls me for things and its hard to say no. Any advice?
Hi Patsy. Ahh middle school. I remember those years with not no fond memories myself. Seems like the moment children enter middle school all heck breaks loose, as virtually overnight kids seem to change in personality so much so that parents can hardly recognize their own child.
Please understand that I am not well versed on the subject of ADHD, but have limited knowledge of this disorder such as knowing there is medication that these children are often put on to regulate the symptoms. Ok?
Your granddaughter is still very young, so that is good. Getting the enabling under control now while she is still young will help prevent the problems of helping vs. enabling from reeking havoc on your lives when she’s an adult.
Allowing your granddaughter to experience and deal with the consequences of her own choices and behaviors now, while very hard and painful emotionally, is very important. You obviously want what is best for your granddaughter, so keep in mind that the goal is for your granddaughter to learn that in the real world everyone makes choices and must learn to make good choices, otherwise there are often severe consequences for making bad choices or decisions. Allow her to learn that now while she’s still very young, so hopefully she won’t be learning the lesson the hard way in years to come by spending years in jail like some other kids do.
Stand firmly alongside your daughter. Absolutely DO present a united front because if/when your granddaughter sees that she can get her way with one of you (like you mentioned she calls you for things), then watch out for the manipulation games to begin. Don’t allow yourself to fall into the trap of “mother guilt” complex where kids use a mother’s (or grandmother’s) emotional bond against her to get their own way.
It is and WILL be hard to say no, but you have to do it anyway. Sometimes being a tough parent or showing “tough love” with kids first requires parents to get tough with themselves. When you say no to your granddaughter, say no knowing in your heart and mind that it is for HER best interests, not your own. Read again what you said above, “She still talks to be BECAUSE I’ve always spoiled her”.
She will be angry when she can’t get her own way. She will very likely stop talking to you as well for awhile, as it’s obviously her way of trying to control the situations she gets herself into. Don’t take it personally. I mean that, don’t take it personally. She’s reacting with anger and wanting desperately to find someone (anyone) who will give into her. Don’t do it. If you need to cry out your emotions when you tell her no, then be sure that you do so NOT in earshot of your granddaughter (on the phone etc), but when speaking to her directly (in person or on the phone) keep your voice strong. Don’t let your granddaughter use your emotions against you, cause she will if she has the chance. That won’t be good for either of you.
Check out The Enabler: When Helping Hurts the Ones You Love now while your granddaughter is still very young, as this will help prevent it from being a problem for many years to come. It will help you personally deal with your feelings and emotions as well, because kids are well known for using them against their parents and grandparents. I wish the best for you, your daughter and your granddaughter. If I can help any further, please don’t hesitate to drop me a note again. Good luck Patsy!
Patsy,
I know exactly what you mean! Our 12 year old grandson, who is also ADHD, is giving his Mom fits! He’s living with his Dad and when his Mom is there he is very disrespectful to her. His Dad talks to his Mom in much the same way so he is learning very quickly to be disrespectful to all women. He also gets most of what he wants from both so is spoiled.
Giving in to chldren (by parents/grandparents) and not supporting each other will end in any child having no feeling of self-worth later on. We all need to remember what is said about children asking (by their bad behavior) for boundaries and loving discipline. It is true! Also, having a child “like” a parent/grandparent because they give in is not good for that child, either. All it proves is that manipulation works.
Hope it all works out for you. We’re still working on our offspring!
Is there any hope for my relationship? After reading the various articles it doesn’t seem hopeful
I truly love most everything about my adult-child who is 32 and unemployed. He treats me like I have wings and a halo over my head. We’ve been together for 3 years, live together for the last 2 years and split everything 50/50. I have been employed at the same company for six years and prior to that five years. I am 34 years old. He has held 2 jobs since we’ve been together for a total of half our relationship. He wants to get married and I say ‘no job, no marriage’. I told him I want us (“him”) to be completely independent. He said he’s trying to figure out his career path and his parents are just helping him do this (paying for everything). The parents have the means and help all the “kids” ages range from 22-37. Some of them married with kids of their own. I truly understand your moto: “Need creates real motivation” as I was not raised in a wealthy home and have worked since I was 15. So why am I trying to build a life with someone who’s parents are paying for all of it? It’s like living a false life. If he was working, our day-to-day lives would be so different. For the last six months, I’ve been depressed and told him he needs to find a job by Sept. I wish I had more faith but I don’t think that will happen. I’m frustrated at his lack of progress and frustrated with myself for focusing on it so intently and for going back and forth between “enabling” him with his job search (doing things he should do) and then realizing what I’m doing and getting angry at the whole situation.
Hi Catherine. I’m very proud of you for having the courage and strength to say “no job, no wedding”. Very good! (clapping my hands loudly and grinning from ear to ear).
I’m really not sure if you actually need anyone’s advice on this, because from you’ve written here, it seems to me that you already know the answers. And, I’m very happy that you have given this very serious thought.
You’re obviously seeing “red flags” waving wildly, and you’re smart to pay attention to them. You say his parents are helping him and he’s still, at the age of 32, ‘trying to figure out his career path’. Yeah, right.
It sounds to me like his parents are definite enablers, and he’s enjoying every minute of it, and if you’re not very careful you’ll be the next in line to enable him. If you let it happen.
I think, if I’m reading between the lines correctly, that you’re wondering how much of this you are willing to accept in your life, or if you need to make serious changes with this relationship. Right?
I can’t answer that question for you. That’s entirely up to you to decide if you are willing to spend your life being the wife of a man who clearly doesn’t have the motivation to take on the responsibilities of an adult; husband; and father to children that may come from the marriage. Are you willing to carry most, if not all, the responsibilities that go with being the wife/husband/mom/dad/breadwinner all wrapped into one? Hugs, Catherine, in whatever you decide.
I’ve been reading some posts, but nothing is helpful for my situation. My 26 yr. old son is in jail for theft:( 2nd time for this in the past 6 years. He said he stole cause he needed the money for bills, etc.
I’ve helped him pay some of those bills, so not sure why he still needs more money.
Not sure if he’s doing drugs again or not–he has before.
My question is should I try to be tough & not get him out of jail or get him out? Being there, I feel, will make him think about his actions, if it was worth it or not.
If you can help me, thank you. I think I know the answer to my question, just need someone to agree?
Hi Lydia, if I were you I would NOT get your son out of jail. He’s all grown up now and needs to deal with the consequences of his choice, no matter how hard it is for you to stand by and watch it all happen. Rescuing him or getting him out of jail will not help him in the long run. Stop paying his bills and stop giving him money to help him pay bills.
Stealing money to pay for bills is an extremely poor decision, but one he chose all on his own. People have to work and work very hard to have the money they need to take care of themselves and be financially responsible as an adult. If your son needs to work two or even three jobs to provide for himself, then that is what he needs to do, and he knows it deep down. It’s just easier to get help from mom and/or dad, or as with his situation, steal the money.
Be very tough and very strong, and let him stay in jail. No more helping him with money please. It won’t make him be responsible.
The only question I have is what if your grown child is married to an abusive husband and needs somewhere to go until she can get a job and get on her feet? Do you send her to the women’s shelter?
Hi Nan,
Helping a grown daughter escape from an abusive husband would not be considered enabling, unless the time she is allowed to stay in a parents’ home or relative/friend’s home goes beyond what would be reasonable.
Her safety may be at risk, and anyone who helps her may be at risk from the abuser, so caution must be taken to protect not only the daughter but anyone who offers and provides help.
If there is any concern that the abuser may come after the daughter in order to harm her, it would be in everyone’s best interests for her to stay in a place the abusive husband is not aware of, perhaps a woman’s shelter or a friend/co-worker the husband doesn’t know.
Be sure to have a clearly defined, written and signed contract, that lays out all the details of how long she will stay, what “house rules” she must abide by, things expected of her as far as helping around the house and chores etc, including an end date of when she needs to be on her own.
Helping her get on her own doesn’t mean she gets to save her money to buy a house, pay off all her debt (if any after divorce), buy herself a brand new car, buy herself gadgets or spend money on fun and entertainment.
Helping her is only helping when it’s understood that, despite her circumstances, she must focus her attention and energies (and money) on getting back out on her own, in her own place, as quickly as possible.
If a parent takes on too much of the responsibility for helping a grown child, even in abusive situations, like babysitting children while the grown child is painting the town red with friends, parents often discover their help is being taken advantage of and problems mount.
Women in abusive relationships may find help in reading How to Hide Money From an Abusive Husband, and getting help from counselors, who can suggest various resources to assist in finding jobs and housing.
Here’s my situation and any help would be greatly appreciated… I have a 19 year old daughter living at hom who has 2 yr old twin boys. We agreed to support her as long as she went to college full time. This past semester she ended up dropping out saying it was too much with the kids (even tho they live with us and I quit my job to stay home to watch them so she could go to school). We told her to get a full time job and as of this date she is only working 8 – 10 hrs a week. She is very rude to me and very disrespectful. Never raises a finger around here to help clean and her room is disqusting. She does make sure the boys are clean and their environment is too tho. Her boyfriend some how now lives here and he is 21 yrs old and has an ok full time job. He continues to not go to work and takes my daughter and the boys out for the day to play. Spends excessive money on toys for himself. He doesnt help financially with the household nor do routine chores. My daughter is doing nothing to find a full time job even tho they both say how much they hate living here and want out on their own.
So my question is.. do I need to just kick them out and let them sink or swim… and my even bigger question is what about the twin boys? As of now my husband and I have full custody so that they can be on our insurance so technically they wont have to leave. Any help would be greatly appreciated… I seem to be alone in this battle with my husband hiding out and not wanting to deal with it.
Wow Kim! Her boyfriend is living there too?, but not working since he’s too busy playing? Yikes!
Yes, kick them out…sink or swim. This is a classic case of kids taking advantage of parents good intentions. Since you have full custody of the twins, they don’t have to leave as you said. But the two so-called adults get the heave-ho, and not allowed to move back in, not even for one day.
It’s a shame and disappointing that your husband is hiding away from this problem and not wanting to deal with it, but someone has to take the first step towards resolving this problem. Looks like it’s gonna be you Kim.
My 29 year old son came back to stay with me 3 months ago. He has been in and out of my house since he was 17. It seems like I’ve been doing this with him forever…I’ve kicked him out twice before and he seems to get his life together for a little while and then it falls apart.
He’s had drug and legal issues since he was 15. At one point I Baker Acted him to a mental hospital….he spent his 16th birthday in court ordered drug rehab.
I know in my head what the right thing for me to do…let him go to jail, sleep in the gutter, or die….it’s just so extremely hard. I raised him alone from 11 months old. His father was not interested in him at all. He is the only family I have.
He has been sleeping on my couch, spending all his money (he had a good job until 3 days ago) going out every weekend, and not even trying to be responsible I told him to come get his stuff and bring me the key. I haven’t heard from him since then and will probably have to change the locks (he has stolen from me before) today.
I’m tired of being taken advantage of, but I’m more tired of being sad, depressed, worried, etc.
This really sucks.
Donna, your story breaks my heart into pieces. Yes, these situations with grown children really does suck. I empathize with you in the struggle of knowing what you need to do vs the emotional pain of actually doing it. It must be done, for your sake and his. Don’t delay in changing the locks; you don’t want a repeat of past occasions of stealing from you. Hugs Donna!
Dear Donna,
We’ll keep you and your son in our prayers. It must be so difficult to see your child in such a destructive situation! Just remember that there are people who are there for you.
God bless both of you!
My BIL has a bench warrant(s?) out for his arrest. Now my husband has to go to court because he did not want to go to jail and gave the police his name and our address when he was pulled over for speeding and driving without a license. This brother has been in trouble, out of work and a alcohol/drug abuser for many years. Both my husband and I suspect that his parents will come to his brother’s rescue when the court date gets here, and once again he will be allowed to walk away without facing any of the consequences. We have cut off all contact with my BIL and will let the local prosecutor deal with him. He is furious with my husband and thinks we are “screwing him”. My in laws say they wish they had done something about his behavior when he was younger, but it’s too late now and they feel guilty. We are concerned that this is going to put a strain on their relationship with us because in the past they have expected us to “let it go” when there’s been trouble. But my husband’s livelihood depends on a spotless record and we cannot afford to look the other way this time. When our own child got into trouble a couple of years ago we had him take full responsibility for his actions, which included making restitution and probation until his 18th birthday. It was the hardest thing we’ve had to do as parents. But he has worked hard to turn his life around, become a good student and pay back what he owes; and we are proud of him. I hope everyday that this will be the day my in laws realize it’s not too late to stop enabling my BIL and “let go”. Meanwhile, we prepare for a process that’s going to cost us in legal fees and time spent away from work to clear my husband’s name.
Rae, this is so sad. Your BIL creates legal problems for your husband and that somehow makes you and your husband “the bad guy” with the relatives? Wow!
It’s wonderful that you’ve made your children take responsibility for themselves and their choices. Good for you! Those tough lessons will be remembered for many years to come, and they’ll be the better for it.
I too hope your BIL’s other relatives will really stop and think about what all has happened and how covering for him over and over again has lead to the current situation. I really hope your husband is able to clear his name and there are no long-term repercussions from this. Hang in there!
I have a 27 year old son sitting in jail right now , he has 2 children one her other grandmother and I switch back and forth so many days per week. I have know for years he has a pot problem and this is his second time being busted so that make sit a felony in this state . He has a college degreeand does nothing with it delivers pizza for a living his girlfriend mother of the baby that goes back and forth has the same trouble as my son and she doesn’t do anything but smoke pot and watch tv. My trouble is my son can play guilt on me so well and I keep blaming myself for his troubles and I want so badly to stop,but how? My husband is deployed to Iraq and we have already adopted our oldest sons 2 girls while he sits in Federal prison for 14 years and their mother flew the coop. I love my granddaughter but do not feel I can raise another child I will be in my 70″s when she goes to high school and my husband and I will have never had anytime to ourselves, but how do I let go of an innocent child? I do not want to go to court and support my son any longer will I be a bad parent if I don’t go and do not accept his collect calls? This is so painful.
Hi Alice, I’m so sorry you’re going through this. To answer your question, NO you are not a bad parent for not going to court or accepting his collect calls. Stop blaming yourself, and stop allowing your son to make you feel guilty. He obviously knows that he can “guilt” you into doing things for him, so put up an emotional and mental wall between him and you and stop allowing him to manipulate you.
You can only do what you can do, and when you’ve given all you can possibly give, or “help” as much as you can with taking care of grandchildren etc, you have to decide when and where to draw the line and stop stretching yourself out too much.
You have the right to your own life too. Parents are supposed to be taking care of their own children, not grandparents. Perhaps there is help on the children’s mothers side of the family, an aunt, sister, etc that can take the children in, or other relatives that can step in?
Lin,
Just wanted to touch base with you on how we are doing with regard to my step-sons and the enabling my husband does. I think the way they are going, they will never get married or have a family. I have tried to talk to my husband about the enabling, but he gets angry whenever I try to broach the subject after he has had to put another support check into the mail for his son who is in his tenth year of (full time) college (just for a basic degree). His older son is hinting about financing for his own business. We went through this a few years ago and it didn’t work then so don’t think it will now. I think I will just have to accept it. Nothing is going to change as long as my husband is alive. He has also set up his 401K so that his sons get half (even though they owe us a lot of money). I am tired of dealing with it. It isn’t right, but I am just making myself sick with worry about our future. If my husband hasn’t learned by now to say no, it won’t happen. I am going to concentrate on my wellbeing and just try to be as happy as I can be under the circumstances. I have my own children and grandchildren to enjoy and want to do that.
Hi Betty,
I’m so sorry this has been so difficult for you. Trying to get an enabling parent to see the real truth of what they’re doing can be very hard to deal with.
All I can say is do everything in your power to ensure your own financial security for the future. Whether that is a 401K plan for yourself, a nice nest-egg savings account or cd’s etc; just make sure your future is set so that when you are needing money for an unexpected health situation, car problems, etc…, that you have are able to take care of yourself and your own needs (regardless of what your hubby does).
It’s so important to have an “emergency fund” to cover expenses that suddenly pop up. So many women (not talking about you here Betty) assume wrongly that their husbands have set up their finances so that if something happens to the husband, that the wife will have plenty of money to live on. That’s just not the case in many situations, and many women end up in bankruptcy court because of huge amounts of debts (that they weren’t ever aware of), losing their house etc because of having no credit of their own and no knowledge and understanding about finances/retirement planning etc to provide for themselves if the unthinkable happened. Take care of yourself Betty, and make sure you have what you need to be alright financially.
Lin,
Thanks so much for the advice! You are so rightwhen you say that many women do not think about how to secure their own futures. Luckily I can still work part time for my old school district and make some decent money doing it. I plan to work for quite a few more years so that I can always have enough to have back up for myself. My retirement is ok, but I will work to supplement it. Luckily, I enjoy working with former colleagues so it isn’t a hardship. I feel blessed to be able to do it.
By the way, I recently found out my husband co-signed a large loan for his son who is still in college and that scares me a lot! (He co-signed for the older son four years ago and ended up paying off the loan unexpectedly when his son reneged on the loan.) This loan is much larger and the younger son is no better about paying bills, so…. I anticipate having to pay on this one for a long time. I can’t believe my husband did that without consulting with me beforehand! I think it was very dispectful of him not to tell me and to saddle us with that kind of debt (esp. with investments going down hill now)! What was he thinking??? If something happens to him in the next few years (he’s older than I am), I will have to pay off the loan. I have no reason to think that his sons are any more responsible than they were when they were younger.
We recently purchased vehicles and re-financed our house once again. If we were not supporting his younger son, we would have the finances to replace vehicles and do some work on the house. He doesn’t seem to realize how much he is spending on BOTH of his sons during each year.
I don’t understand enablers at all. They seem to feel guilty that they have what their adult children don’t have. They seem to forget how long it took to have the “things” they earned. They also don’t seem to think their children should have to save and earn the “things” THEY want. Something is just wrong with how they think.
I’m afraid that if we continue to go into a deep recession (or semi-depression), these adult children will just come home and live off parents who are struggling to make it when their investments are losing value. I sure hope I’m wrong.
Betty, I’d also be very upset to find out about loans being taken out to “help” grown children without my knowledge. I’d be furious for many reasons (lack of communication and loss of trust just to start with), and since such a situation would be something I’d get saddled with paying off if something were to happen to the hubby, the marriage would be in grave jeopardy. How would the hubby feel if you/I were to do the exact same thing without discussing it with him first? Most likely they’d be just as furious, but somehow it’s okay since it’s their children ie., grown step kids. Argh!
That ol nonsense about making sure kids “have it easier” than parents had it has created a society of entitled, lazy, unmotivated, selfish kids who are given everything their little hearts desire from the time they’re very young, through their teen years and when they become adults, it’s the misguided belief that the world “owes” them what they want instead of having to work their butts off for what they need and want.
It’s no wonder children/teens/adults go around using that word “owe”, as in.., “you owe me” this and that. Sheeeesh.
Lin,
You nailed it! It is too bad that parents have created this mess with their guilt, etc. and just think….! Our kids are the future – who will be/are running our government. No wonder there are so many scandals. Too many of them have no remorse for what they do when they cheat, lie and steal. They have been taught that they can do no wrong and are idolized instead of taught to be decent people who have basic moral values good judgment skills. It is something we all should look at long and hard and ask ourselves if this is what we want for our future and theirs. As long as there are parents who do not teach their kids right from wrong, and do not instill a good work ethic in their minds, this problem will not go away. It is up to all of us to go back a bit to what we learned and expect our kids to be productive and decent human beings as what was expected from us. We can start by teaching them to value life and work. They need the tools to be able to achieve success in whatever they choose for the future. Success without greed. Success with decency. Success with compassion. Success with ethics. Success with protection of all human beings. Success with humility. Making a lot of money doesn’t measure success. What we become is the measure of true success.
Sorry I couldn’t delete the 2nd comment. I tried to edit and somehow doubled it.
That’s alright Betty, I removed the duplicate one.
From the kind of messages I get through comments and private emails, many have the opinion that enabling began after the depression. Since I wasn’t around at that time, I have no concrete answer or opinion on that.
I don’t feel it’s productive to try to figure out when specifically helping became enabling in history, but just the fact that many people think they’re helping their kids when in actuality they are really enabling their children.
It also doesn’t have anything to do with how poor or financially wealthy a parent is, as enabling behaviors cross all boundaries, racial, ethnic, religious, financial etc.
Kids are given whatever their little hearts desire from the time children are very young, and as these kids become teenagers…, many wake up on their 16th Birthday to find a brand spankin’ new sports car in their driveway with a great big red bow on it, as if becoming 16 means parents “owe” them a car of any kind.
Whatever happened to kids growing up and earning their own money in order to buy the things they can afford with their own money? Kids haven’t learned nor have they been taught how to within their means. Kids don’t even know what the phrase “live within your means” actually means for them. Many parents don’t practice what they preach either; you can’t tell or teach children about money and money management when the kids themselves see the parents not doing it either, and going out and spending, spending, buying and buying and then struggle to make payments. Ugh….
I have one son. He lives 9 miles away. He is in a relationship with a married woman, and they have a child together. He has one from a previous marriage, and she has one as well. I used to ask the children over for an overnight with Grandma, but lately, they have “changed their mind” when I go to pick them up. I have changed my schedule, and made time for them, but they don’t respect that. The parents say nothing to the child. I am asked to babysit, and sometimes it if with 1/2 hour notice. When I do, I feel used. I am expected to visit on Sunday, but I don’t enjoy it. I have stopped visiting. I used to invite my son and his first wife over for dinner, thanksgiving etc. But after being stood up several times, I quit inviting them over. I feel like they think I SHOULD do these things, and that I owe them babsitting, but it doesn’t feel right to me. Last week, I was invited to the baby’s 1st birthday party, with 1/2 hour notice.
I want to be a part of their family, but it doesn’t feel right. I always feel like I am being manipulated and used. and almost always feel disrespected. Do I have to break off all ties with them, or is their a way to be in their lives and visist them when I want, but not be sucked into the disfunction?
Hi Joy, this is obviously a very difficult and emotionally charged situation. You have every right to decide when or if you will or won’t babysit. Being a grandparent doesn’t automatically mean there is an instant babysitter, with or without proper notice.
You have every right to say no to babysitting requests, and while you really don’t owe anyone an explanation or reason as to why you’re “not available this time”, if you want to you could always say you have other plans for that day/time.
I certainly can’t know whether there is manipulation going on or not, but it does appear that there is a definite communication break-down in the relationship between you and your son and his girlfriend. 1/2 hour notice to your own grandchild’s birthday party doesn’t and wouldn’t feel right to me either.
After you’ve had a chance to read my article about How to Be a Good Mother-In-Law, you may want to consider having a private conversation with your son in order to discuss your feelings openly and honestly, and allow him the opportunity to share his own thoughts and feelings at what may be behind this situation. Barring any of the specific problems described in the Mother-In-Law article, talking with your son would be a very important first step at resolving these problems.
No, you don’t have to break off all ties with them if you don’t want to or feel it’s necessary. You should absolutely be treated with respect and dignity, and not only will you need to discuss with your son how you’ve been feeling, but you will also need to clearly discuss reasonable and appropriate boundaries. What grandparents “should” do or not do is up for personal interpretation, and I always hate it when I hear stories about “should” this and “should” that. Who is making the rules anyway?
When talking with your son, there is a chance that he will tell you things that will upset you, perhaps things you’ve said or done that bothered him and his girlfriend. If so, these will very likely be things you weren’t even aware of, since they’ve obviously not discussed them with you, perhaps out of fear of hurting your feelings. Communication is needed on both sides, respectful and dignified communication. Only then will you know the core issues from his/their side and he/they will know what is bothering you, and only then can you all work together to resolve the problems and create a cohesive family unit where everyone is feeling respected and not used and manipulated.
Think about that, read the Mother In Law article, and come back and let me know how your conversation went with your son. Good luck!
I read on one of the other pages that it was wrong for adult children to show up at grandma’s house once a year for presents, then not see them for the rest of the year. My case is similar to that as I am divorced 14 years now from an extremely abusive man, and after a Restraining Order was placed on him we finally got away when my children were 12, 10, and 8 when we split.
After the order expired, for two years my ex came to see the children every day and took them to his mothers many times (she lives 3 hrs away).
After my ex met his current wife all visits stopped and he quit seeing the children. I tried to keep the relationship going between my children and my in-laws by meeting them half way, going for day visits (me driving up and back), etc. (She didn’t want them to spend the night & I couldn’t afford a motel).
The children and I were on welfare the first few years as I had been a stay at home mom during the 16 year marriage and didn’t even know how to turn on a computer. I finally got on my feet with a job and off welfare but money was really tight. My point is that my mother-in-law (who has no money problems) never did anything for these kids. She never made any special effort to see them, etc. So now there is little to no relationship with that side of the family including my ex, their father.
So who is responsible for MAKING the relationship happen so when the children do become adults they will care and want to see their father’s side of the family???? In my opinion it is the adults that should go out of their way to make a relationship with their grandchildren. Then, as adults, it is up to the kids. My mother in law traveled all over the world, went on every cruise and tour overseas, but never once made time to come and see her grandchildren……your thoughts???
Hi Judy, this is very sad indeed. (For anyone who hasn’t seen the article that you’re mentioning, it’s this article that Judy is talking about specifically).
Relationships are a two-way street, and while children/grandchildren are young, of course the adults (parents/grandparents) should go the extra mile to visit children/grandchildren that establishes a strong family bond. Grandchildren need to see their grandparents, and unless the grandparents are what I refer to as “elderly” and unable to drive/travel etc due to age or health reasons, grandparents should/must do everything within their power to communicate regularly and visit with grandchildren in order for the children to feel loved and adored by grandma and grandpa.
Once the kids have become adults, it’s important for both sides to take active steps to make regular phone calls to chat and stay connected, regular visits throughout the year (not just during Birthdays, Thanksgiving or Christmas). If there hasn’t been the heartfelt connection between adult children and grandparents, due to virtually no established bond, it’s understandable that adult children would not feel obliged to visit/call/give gifts etc.
Judy, the article you’re referring to is basically talking about teenagers and grown children who show up at parents/grandparents house ONLY when gifts are expected to be received. No phone calls or visits throughout the year until suddenly there’s a Birthday or Christmas, with the selfish attitude of “lets go to grandma and grandpa’s house to get our presents”, and then not seen or heard from at all until the next round of gifts are “owed”.
If your grown children don’t feel connected or bonded with their grandparents, and there’s been no real effort to establish and build such a bond throughout their life, then it’s understandable that your kids would basically feel as though their grandparents are virtual strangers to them. It’s a real shame to hear that your children’s grandma has managed to travel so much but didn’t feel the desire or need to travel to visit her own grandchildren. I don’t personally understand that. I’ve got my reservations all set to go to visit my grandson and grown children in February who live up north, and I can’t imagine or understand grandparents who don’t do the same. Then they sit back and whine and complain that their children or grandchildren never come to visit. Why should they?
It was a real ugly divorce!! The abuse my children endured was unspeakable! When I “caught” him with my daughter, I locked all 3 kids and myself in my bedroom every night; we were finally able to get away a few months later. I hardly slept during that period before that, as my ex became a predator. Many nights I would jump awake with him standing over my bed just glaring a flicking his fingernails. Another night I awoke with him peeking through the doorway of my bathroom just glaring at me. He would play “mind games” by taking the kids off in the car and not telling me. It was pure hell!
He finally hit me hard enough to send me to the hospital 1995, and I pressed charges. In court I testified of all the abuse and he was ordered to take anger mgmt classes, parenting classes, etc. but he was never charged for the molestation. After the Protective Order was expired he moved one mile away and came and played with the kids everyday with me there. When the kids misbehaved, he just left and went home instead of screaming, cursing and hitting them, then he came back the next day and everyone was over it.
It was dysfunctional but it worked. My divorce decree states that “at periods of time when he has custody of the children he is not allowed to sleep in the same bed with them.”
Now, the children are grown and my daughter remembers his molestation but the boys do not. However, the signs are there as my two youngest now believe they are gay and my oldest has other “root” issues relating to molestation and abuse.
Anyway, I testified to all of this in court and of course it made his side of the family hate me so therefore they didn’t make any effort to see the kids after the new wife came on board in 1997. People tell me they are better off but there is a huge wound there, and my kids feel abandoned.
I did go back to work, but have never brought another man in front of the kids as they were traumatized enough. I just devoted my life to them as best I could, but even that has not been enough…..does that make me the victim? I guess I wouldn’t change it, even if I could.
My in-laws traveled the world, my ex married an educated woman (she’s an architect and he’s an engineer) in 1997 who didn’t want anything to do with kids, and they now both work at the Pentagon.
He got away with it and went on to have his dream job……meanwhile his kids are angry, hurt and wounded people who are having a very hard time figuring out life and relationships……and my daughter tried to take her own life two months ago……….I guess that would make me the enabler….right?
My friends call me “Job” from the Bible, but I’m not that strong!! LOL…..maybe I should write a book and call it “woe is me.” Just kidding!!
No seriously, after years and years of counseling, I still don’t know how to help or not help my kids.
WOW Judy! I’ve written plenty about child sexual abuse on this site and I completely understand what you and your daughter have gone through. I don’t see how you would be considered an enabler though. Perhaps your daughter would be encouraged by this article and resources, as many people (thousands actually) have come to this site for information and help with dealing with sexual abuse. Being the mother of a sexually abused child does not in and of itself mean that you are an enabler, and I can completely understand the struggle you must be feeling in trying to figure out how or how much to help your daughter or your other children. Perhaps the article I just mentioned will help you and your daughter, and I wish you both all the best. It would be easy for me to say that the kids are better off not having anything to do with either their dad or the grandparents, but it is very true that regardless of the abuse endured, in the kids minds it’s still “dad” and still “grandma and grandpa” and open wounds are very hard to heal.
Judy,
I am sad to hear that there was so much abuse and that your children have to go through this sadness and confusion in their lives. I sometimes can’t believe how many of us went through abuse of some kind and that we are as strong as we are today. Molestation is a horrible thing and girls and boys who suffer through it certainly have the scars for life.
I just don’t understand how an abuser’s family can sometimes turn on the victims as if it is their fault somehow. It doesn’t make any sense at all! It’s as if the family thinks the children and spouse deserve such horrible treatment and that their precious son or daughter just couldn’t have done it. It must have been the victim’s imagination or something.
I went through just one incident of molestation and know that I would never have told my family that it happened (especially my mother). I just know she would have believed it was my fault even though I was only 12 years old and very trusting of everyone. It changed how I reacted to men, that’s for sure! I was never very trusting, again! Unfortunately, if a child is very close to the adult who betrays him/her, it’s worse. A child may still love that person in some way, but will never trust that person.
Even if your children never have a good relationship with their father’s family, they should be able to have the best relationship with you because you are not judging them, but loving them. YOUR love is unconditional. That’s what counts. If we have only one person in our lives we can turn to for that unconditional love, we are truly blessed. I am blessed because I have my children who love me for myself and know they are loved no matter what THEY do in their lives. Their father and his wife may have placed conditions on their love, but I don’t. I am doubly blessed because my husband feels the same way about them and they’re not even his children!!! How about that! Even with adversity, we can have what we need. Sometimes that’s all we can ask for.
Stay strong and God bless!
My almost 21 year old daughter seemed to be very responsible until about 8 months ago. She was working, had graduated from vocational school and was living on her own. Then she started using drugs and everything went downhill from there. She lost her job and her apartment. Her father and I put her through rehab but it doesn’t seem to have worked. We have been supporting her since but she is unappreciative and feels that she “deserves” everything we give her. She takes no responsibility for her actions and I am finally ready to cut her off. I am so physically, emotionally, spiritually, and financially exhausted that my health and well-being are suffering. She is able to manipulate me so well that I am now having her contact her father (who sees through her lies and excuses) instead of me. It’s a relief not to have to deal with her drama any more even though the consequences scare me to death! Any advice?
Hi Leslie, isn’t it amazing how many grown adult children have the ridiculous idea that their parents “owe” them? Your daughter is definitely not the only adult child who feels the way she does, as it’s commonly referred to as the Entitlement Epidemic nowadays.
It’s time to cut the apron strings in a very swift and strong manner. Tough Love. While you certainly still love your daughter and want the very best for her, continuing to provide for her every want and whim isn’t beneficial for you or your daughter.
From your message, it appears as though your daughter is living with you. It’s great that her father sees through the nonsense and manipulation tactics so commonly used.
You cannot control her choices and behaviors. She must be held accountable and responsible for her own choices and decisions. The good, bad and the downright ugly. She chose drugs for herself, and you and her father did what you could to help her deal with it and that is all anyone could ever expect a parent to do.
Need creates motivation.
Give her a 30-day deadline to get a job, (two jobs if necessary) that will allow her the money she needs to live on her own. Where will she live? That’s totally up to her, so don’t do anything at all to try and find an apartment for her, and absolutely do not co-sign a lease. Perhaps she’ll find a roommate or a room for lease somewhere that she can afford; wherever she finds a place to live is fine, as long as it’s not with you or her dad.
Under no circumstances should a parent c0-sign an apartment for an adult child; it will come back to bite you. If she asks for help in finding an apartment, tell her she’s an adult and that you trust she will be able to find one on her own that she can afford with her own money.
Do not give her any money for a deposit on an apartment. No more money. No money for turning on utilities or deposits on utilities being put in her name etc. No money whatever.
Tell her about the 30-day deadline and include the fact that IF she doesn’t follow through with finding a job and working steadily to get a place of her own and acting like an adult, then at the end of the deadline she will be kicked out of the house. No If, And’s or But’s about it. No crying, whining, moaning and manipulations will do any good. Tell her that up front, so she knows there will be swift accountability for her actions and choices.
Do not back down or give into any of her nonsense. Hold firm to your resolve that you know it is better for her and for yourself that she behave and live like an adult, but not under your roof or her dad’s. No drawing up rental contract agreements etc where she “agrees” to pay you rent. She won’t hold up to the agreement, and you’ll be back to square one again.
Get tough, get strong, and let go of the emotional apron strings that she’s using against you as a mother. Let me know how it all works out.
I had two kids on crystal meth at the same time. I had no husband or support. I went to work everyday as if nothing were wrong, but home was a different story. Each child is different, but I think crystal meth is the most demonic drug existing today…..even more so than heroin.
I tried kicking my children out but never could do it when they came home desperate at 3 in the morning with all new promises……so I probably fueled it further. They both are clean and sober now……but I can only thank God and the many people who prayed for us.
Bottom line, you have to do what is best for you. Weigh the odds…..could you live with yourself if you turned your drugged up child away in the middle of the night and something happened to him/her??
30 day rehabs rarely work, and most allow the patient to have visitors….which are usually the “old” friends. They are like hotels where the patient is drugged and waited on hand and foot, including all meals cooked….and no dishes to clean up. Rehabs also diagnose almost every kid with “bipolar”…..that is the new buzz med for this decade. In the 80′s and 90′s it was ADD and ADHD…..causing an alarming number of children to be put on Ritalen, which is speed.
How can you drug your child when they are 6, and expect them to want to be sober when they are 16? Not all doctors do this, and some of them even believe the hype they’ve fallen into. I was born in the 50′s and no one had ADD back then. ….. or bipolar.
Drugs are a multi trillion dollar business and big Pharma and FDA wants your child!!
3 to 6 month programs work, like boot camps and interventions but they are expensive. If there is a Victory Outreach (VO) in your town, they are excellent and voluntary. Drive you child there instead of just kicking them out to the street. VO is free.
May God bless you and give you His peace.
Hi Judy.
I guess I might have felt the way you do about bi-polar disease if I hadn’t seen how my daughter and a couple of her friends have been able to lead somewhat normal lives since they have been on meds. The meds they are taking are regulating the chemical imbalances they have that led to their diagnoses of bi-polar disease. I seriously doubt my daughter would now be living on her own, paying her bills and dealing with the ups and downs of her disease if she were not on the proper meds for her. If you had seen how she was in her early 20′s, you would believe that her illness is real. Of course, she is closely monitored by her doctor so she gets only the meds she needs and in the proper doses. She was housed in several places for many years, but it was only recently that she was blessed to have a doctor who knows what to do for her and is sensitive to her needs. Nothing is ideal, but if something is working even most of the time, isn’t it worth pursuing it? Mental illness is not helped simply by putting someone in a short term program like a boot camp. It is a lifelong struggle for patients and their families. Ups and downs are common. Most of us are able to curb impulses and “come out” of down periods. People who suffer from mental illnesses cannot do that. They need help for years.
I hope this helps you to understand why we believe that some of these illnesses are real and why we have chosen to be advocates for our children who have these illnesses.
Thank you for your comments regarding my situation. There’s really a lot more to the story and your feedback has given me strength to share it. My daughter will be 21 years old in 2 weeks. After she lost her apartment I found out that she had gotten involved with “Blaine”. They had no place to stay so her father and I said they could move in with us until they got on their feet. We really didn’t know Blaine so I did some investigating because things didn’t feel right. I contacted his father who told me he had an Oxycontin problem. We asked him to leave and told our daughter that she could stay, but she elected to leave with him. They stayed at various friend’s places (both were, and still are, unemployed). Finally it got to be too much for our daughter, and she moved back home. That’s when we found out that they were both addicted to heroin and we sent her to rehab. In the meantime Blaine got arrested for possession and was sent to jail. After our daughter got out of rehab her good intentions lasted about a week until Blaine got out of jail and we were right back where we started. Lies, excuses, crying, etc. Bottom line is, our daughter is out of the house, homeless, with Blaine. I believe they are still using drugs. We’ve taken away her phone, her car, and have not given her any money since she left the house. I’m trying to take your advice to heart and let her make her own decisions and face the consequences. My husband and I are concerned about her safety however, and want to leave the door open to her in the event that she really wants to change. But how do we know if she means it? And what steps can we take to ensure that she follows through? The last time I talked to her I told her that if she left Blaine and wanted to come home, she would need a plan of action and would need to stick to it becuase I will not support her lifestyle and bad decisions. I absolutely will not support her relationship with Blaine. Any comments that you have on our situation would be appreciated.
Hi Leslie, I also appreciate the additional comments others have given for your situation. Readers can be of such wonderful help to each other with their recommendations and suggestions in the comment section and I’m thrilled with that.
How do you know if or when she really means it? That’s virtually impossible to tell anyone. With the history you mentioned of lying, crying, excuses etc so common with these situations, my personal opinion is that IF she really means it she will begin to show signs of real change in herself, her choices, attitudes and behaviors BEFORE trying to come to you or your husband for help.
I would venture the guess that she knows you’re fed up with the nonsense, and someone who really/truly wants to change will typically exhibit signs of true remorse and regret over past deeds. I understand the concern for her wellbeing and safety, but when it comes right down to it, she ultimately must decide for herself what her life and lifestyle will be (or not). Take things one step at a time, one day at a time, continuing to keep the lines of communication open and always letting her know you love and adore her, and want her to change things for herself. Sometimes that includes “hitting rock bottom”, and everyone is different as regards to when rock bottom actually happens and how, so I really can’t tell you what to look for.
Continue to be there for her as emotional support as any parent would do, but be very cautious to watch for those signs that trickery and manipulation may be in play without you being aware.
I’m sorry Betty……I wasn’t addressing mental illness, but drug abuse. I also never said that every single case was a farce or misdiagnosis; however, if you look at the numbers, there is an alarming amount of abuse regarding the dispensing of drugs that are not needed……especially to children.
I am glad the drug exists, and that it works for your daughter….that is a good thing. I addressed the abuse and overuse that is unnecessary, nothing else.
Sorry for any confusion.
Sorry. Judy. I guess I was so focused on mental illnesses that I missed the whole point of drug abuse.
I was a school secretary for about 15 years (and work part time now) so I have seen many, many elementary-aged children on Ritalin and some on anti-depressants. I have often thought that Ritalin is overused. Parents and sometimes teachers have suggested that drugs like Ritalin be prescribed so that children will be focused in class and at home. I did see a few children come in to the Office when they forgot to take their meds at home who were so unfocused that they were all over the place. I always thought they didn’t need meds until I saw how they were without them. I didn’t know whether or not they were having trouble because of the drugs or if they couldn’t focus on anything without the drugs. It just seems like drug use in this country won’t diminish if our kids use or see drugs dispensed casually. I know a lot of adults who pop pills regularly instead of trying to deal with a little discomfort like a slight headache or a little muscle pain. Guess we can’t blame kids entirely for becoming addicted to pills or other drugs when they see commercials on TV for every kind of pill imaginable.
My daughter takes a variety of meds. Unfortunately, some drugs cause liver damage or thyroid problems so she has to take other meds to deal with the side effects. Seems ridiculous, but that is the way it is! Meds are nothing to take lightly. They are powerful and the side effects can be devastating!
Hi Betty,
Well, here I go on my soap box:
When my middle son was a baby, he developed ear infections and asthma….the doctors and specialists gave him antibiotics, adrenalin shots, etc. for over 6 months. They wanted to put tubes in his ears, which was the big money-maker of the 1980′s (as if God just suddenly forgot to put tubes in babies ears)!! I read almost weekly that another baby had died during the procedure….NOT from the ear infections, etc. but from the anesthesia.
Nothing medical ever worked and nothing ever helped….it just got worse and the meds were actually making it worse b/c his bowels became very acidic and he developed sores from diarrhea and the toxicity of the meds….the sores were bleeding and he was screaming and gasping to breathe! I also had a very active 2 yr old, so needless to say I had zero sleep. I finally talked to a lady that lived behind me and she said I should call a nutritionist that she knew of and highly recommended. I was sleep depraved so I would have called Woody Woodpecker at that point! Richard and his wife, Claudia, came over about 10:00 a.m on a Saturday, and by 1:00 a.m Sunday morning, my son just had a slight wheeze, going from gasping for air.
Richard uses homeopathy, which is all natural. Six days later I took my son back to the specialist and he said “oh, he outgrew it!!!” Can you believe???? I said in 6 days??? The doc never backed down, nor would he acknowledge homeopathy!! Such ego!!
We kept my son on Richard’s program and changed his diet. Who knew that Similac and Soy formula could cause allergies! No doctor ever even hinted that what I was feeding him was killing him…..
We took my son off all dairy and put him on goat’s milk….he thrived. Within weeks he was growing teeth and the most beautiful curly hair you ever saw. We fed him veggies, chicken and turkey, and no starch or dairy or sugar.
It worked so fast it was like a miracle.
Meds do have their place, but they are way overused!!
My sister is a 4th grade teacher and sees these drugged kids every day. She says that most of the time (not every case) the chaos going on in a child’s brain is from the chaos going on at home.
Yikes, Judy! What a mess! I’m really glad that you found someone who could help your son. Alternative medicine certainly has its place in our lives.
Tubes were big news when our kids were small, but they didn’t help much. The kids had so many ear infections before they got them so we agreed to have them put in.
At that time, we were blessed with a family doctor who was into holistic medicine which helped a great deal especially when I had a new baby with the flu. He couldn’t nurse and I was also sick so we were in a bind. He was only able to take in carob powder mixed with brown rice water that our doctor prescribed. It did the trick.
Didn’t use commercial baby food. Gave the baby what we ate when he was ready for foods (pureed chicken, mashed potatoes, and veggies, that he could handle minus salt and spices). Also some fruit that he was ready to eat.
Very fortunate that we belonged to a food buying group that only purchased certified organic foods (that included cheese that was not colored with dyes). No hot dogs, bacon, sausage, lunch meats, etc. Cooked from scratch because I was lucky to be able to stay home to do it. No extras because of my quitting outside work, but we didn’t care. Those were the days of great garage sales for recycling clothes, furniture, dishes, cookware, kids toys and books, etc. We did that in the early 70′s and it wasn’t a new concept even back then.
If families can exist like that these days, it really helps avoid spending money that just isn’t available, and helps by staying away from expensive junk food. I know it’s not easy for families where both parents still have jobs or when a single parent has to work one or more jobs, but it does make a difference in the lives of children and parents. I know WE were all healthier and more active.
Oops! The last part didn’t make it. I was just commenting on kids who live in chaotic homes (on meds or not) and how it may contribute to their behavior at school. I feel sorry for parents today. Some of them may have been latch key kids so were not supervised much. It would be difficult to learn parenting skills in a situation like that. They need help and often would ask for advice from our office staff at school. We could only give them what we felt was very general information because we were not professionals and didn’t want to overstep our boundaries. It’s best left to professionals to help families learn parenting skills for these at-risk kids.
Hi Judy and Betty,
I’m about to send you both an email about a completely different topic, where I hope you both can offer some encouragement to a lady who commented on another article on this site. Please check your spam folder as it will likely end up there since I’ll be providing the link to the article.
Its really important to stop our children from doing wrong things from their early childhood.The tips and suggestions are the most appreciable. Being a responsible parents it seems to be very difficult but at the same time it is quite important to train our children for every areas of life. Thanks for the nice job.
My 26 year old daughter and my grandson live with me. When my grandson stays with his Dad, my daughter stays out all night, sometimes days at a time. She likes to drink and says she just spends the night instead of driving home. This makes me very angry. We feel that we are just a pit stop for her. She does have a full time job and does help some around the house. She is trying to move out but doesn’t have enough money saved up, she is also waiting on child support to start. She works a part time job and spends that on eating out and partying instead of putting some away for when she moves out. She is very rude and disrespectful when I bring up the conversation about staying out all nigh. I worry and can’t sleep at night when she is out all night and it’s stressing me out. I want her to move out now but I know that she can’t afford it. Could you please give me some advice in this matter. Thank you.
Hi Anita, what you’re dealing with here is quite common with grown adult children living at home with the parents, and you’re seeing and feeling the effects of it. Your daughter is working full time AND part time at a second job, but can’t afford to move out? Interesting….
If your daughter were to not spend her money on going out partying and drinking at all hours of the night, maybe she’d have the money she needed to move out and live on her own with her child and start acting like an adult.
You don’t mention how long she’s been living with you, but it’s obvious that you’re ready for her to move out on her own. It’s time to come up with a deadline date that is written in stone and that you won’t waver on. You probably know how much money she makes or at least you have some idea of her income to help you come up with a reasonable deadline for her to have moved out.
Think about how much money she’d have to get her own place IF she didn’t spend her money on other stuff, including going out partying. Based on that, and include the amount she expects to get for child support, and decide on a move out deadline date. 30 days? 60 days tops. No arguing, no bargaining for more time, no “but mom” this or that.
She’s taking advantage of you and your home, being disrespectful towards you as her mother, and it will continue and worsen as long as you allow it. Your efforts to help your daughter have been with good intentions I’m sure, but it’s time to stop “helping” her and start requiring her to stand on her own two feet as an adult and parent to her own child, and quit acting like a teenager wanting to have her cake and eat it too.
Decide on a reasonable deadline date, then sit down with her and tell her that you’ve done all you can do to try and help her, but that she obviously doesn’t want or need your help anymore. Arrange to meet your daughter somewhere public, like at a restaurant and tell her she needs to start looking for a place to live, and that she must be moved out of the house by [insert deadline date] because you need to focus on your own life and ……………. whatever else you want to say.
Don’t allow your daughter to rant and rave at you if/when she becomes angry at you. I typically recommend that parents tell their kids about having to move out in a public restaurant or somewhere other than at home, so that if/when the “adult” child starts complaining and causing a scene, the parents can leave and go home in their own car separately from their child.
This gives the adult child some time to calm down and deal with their own feelings and emotions, and it makes clear that the parents aren’t going to be bullied and ridiculed for making a stand. If there is another family member or close friend that can go with you as “back up”, then bring someone along with you (if you want to) for emotional support. Either way, you have to stand firm on your deadline date, and be sure to tell her that on that deadline date at such-and-such a time you will have changed the locks and she won’t be given a key.
Watch out for emotional blackmail tactics like her saying you won’t be allowed to see your grandchild etc. She’ll likely be angry for a little while, so just dismiss her anger and don’t let it get it to you emotionally, because that’s exactly what she’d want. Be strong, show no emotion, no tears of any kind. Act completely opposite of what she would hope or expect from your reactions to what she may say.
Tough love Anita. It’s stressful and hard to do for many parents, but if you don’t do it and get your daughter living on her own as an adult, what you’re seeing and experiencing right now will only get worse. I promise you that. Good luck, and please come back and let us know how it all went. We’re here to support and encourage you along the way.
I just ordered your book…”Setting Boundaries with Your Adult Children” I should have had it 26 years ago. My grown daughter (46) has a 2 day a week job and I have been paying her rent for 9 months now. She has a 20 year daughter without a job and a sometimes boyfriend who does – you know what!!!!
I am sick of bailing the woman and her family out and it has gotten worse. I am retired,have my own home, pay my own way and am now dipping into my nest egg. HELP!!!!!!!
Hi Hedy,
First let me say that the Setting Boundaries book is not “my” book, but is a very informative book on dealing with grown children who have serious entitlement issues and how to stop the nonsense. I’m sure you will enjoy the book and the information provided there.
You have to put your foot down once and for all. No more money handouts, no more paying your grown adult daughter’s rent or any other bills she for “help” with. ZERO money.
Each and every time any of them ask you for money or ask you to pay a bill for them, say “I’m sorry but I can’t help you, but I’m sure if you put your mind to it, you’ll figure out how to take care of it yourself and make it so it isn’t a problem for you anymore”. No further discussion – no “but mom” nonsense full of pleading and begging and guilt-trips galore. Just tell her/them NO and change the subject or get off the phone by saying “I’ve really got to go now, talk to you later, bye” and hang up. If your phone starts ringing again and you know it’s from one of your kids, don’t answer the phone, just let it ring or go to voicemail.
No matter what the excuse or so-called “reason” for the money request or “help” as they would likely put it, just keep on telling them Sorry but I can’t help you. Don’t give them any specific reasons for saying no – you don’t owe them any explanation at all. Your money is your money, and they are NOT entitled to it – but they are entitled to start acting like grown adults and do what the rest of us have to do to take care of OURSELVES. If their electric gets shut off, ok fine, it gets shut off and they’ll figure out a way to come up with the money they need to pay to get the electric or other utilities turned back on. NATURAL CONSEQUENCES……. if they don’t pay their rent and they get evicted…… again, natural consequences. Even if they have to (somehow) move into a cheap motel/hotel, or even if they put themselves in a situation where they stay at a shelter for a time, it’s a TOUGH LOVE lesson these “kids” have to learn once and for all.
Trust me…, they won’t starve or die. They will learn the needed tough lesson of what it means to be an adult, rather than an entitled, selfish, lazy moocher and get up off their butts and get a job (or two jobs if necessary) and begin taking care of their own business themselves, rather than running off to you and pressuring you or putting guilt-trips on you (or ridiculous and juvenile threats of not letting you see grandkids etc).
Permanently CLOSE the “bank of mom and dad” once and for all. Say no, mean no, and no never ever means yes. Put your foot down and put it down HARD.
I have e-mailed you before – I still have my phones unhooked – he still calls and contacts me at work – his excuses are just unbelievable – he’s almost 29 – when will it stop? How can I get a copy of the book? I cannot stand to talk with him because I am such a pushover – my doctor said the stress is getting to me and I must just say “No”
Thanks for all your help and prayers
Hi Hedy,
Oh my gosh! Please, please STOP NOW enabling your daughter! Your family won’t stop expecting your support until 1) you put your foot down & stop giving; or 2) you are broke!
My husband has “helped” his sons so much that he continues to dip into our retirement savings with much anxiety, but it hasn’t stopped him. We have a huge mortgage on our house from doing this (among other things – long story). We should not have a mortgage and should have plenty of savings (even though we took a huge hit from this recession). I was hoping that when his younger son left to ilve with his mommy early this month(as his older son is doing), we would finally be free of both of them. Not so. For instance, my husband recently sent his older son $500 for his birthday. That’s insane! No one needs to get that much for a birthday when they are his age (47)! I have been urging my husband to only get our kids cards for their birthdays. They aren’t children! They don’t need parties every year & presents every year. I can see getting together for dinner or some little treat occasionally to celebrate all birthdays together , but he is still trying to be the good old dad with these people. It’s getting tiresome. I have been talking about counseling and must do something about it very soon. It may not help, but maybe having someone outside of the family letting him know he is really hurting his sons by enabling them will give him the jolt he needs. None of us – family or friends – have been able to get him to slow down or stop with the enabling. He gets very defensive & says that they ARE trying to find work & he is just helping until they do. Well, these brats have been “looking” for work for years! How long does it take to give up on them & think about OUR future?? I think I need the book. I should get it, read it, & leave it out so my husband will pick it up (he will) and read it.
Good luck!
Sorry Hedy. Forgot to mention that you also should not let your family live with you. At least I was successful with that one! It went something like this:
Last month, my husband’s younger son asked if he could move in with us instead of moving in with his mother, but I said NO. I was not going to have him here with us driving us crazy. He would have used our phone to make many long distance calls, asked for date money, made our house a mess, & would have had friends in while we were away. I could just see it and wouldn’t agree to it. My experience with his son using our cottage in another town for laundry & who knows what taught me that! My husband tried to tell me that his son did not ask to live with us, but I overheard his son ask while they were talking on the phone the evening before my husband asked if he could move in. So, this is my advice for whatever it’s worth.
My son just checked himself into a correctional rehab facility for 3 months. He was arrested for unlawful entry, possession of marijuana and most recently in the local park after curfew. He’s 20 years old. He has been in rehab for 3 days and I get a phonecall twice a day from him. At first he was scared and full of anxiety. He’s not a very big kid and there were some pretty rough characters there that had him rattled. Now his being scared has turned to anger. He wants out and I just keep encouraging him that he can do this. I keep telling him that the alternative could be jail and he needs to buck up and follow through. He feels he doesn’t belong there cuz he just smokes weed but it’s more than that. He has been getting in more and more trouble and I just see it leading to him going to prison eventually. I am full of anxiety myself and everytime he calls, I feel so afraid for him. I have to keep reminding myself that he’s going to be ok and that this is the best thing for him. I have realized though that I have some enabling tendencies myself and I don’t want to do that. I want him 2 get his act together and grow up. I’m tired of this. I have another child who is 23 and she is doing great. Just got married and is very responsible. My son has ADD & OCD and I think I started enabling him because of his problems and he learned how to really manipulate me. He’s not disrespectful toward me but he just hasn’t taken responsibility for his own choices. I need to be strong and continue to just encourage him to stick with this and not baby him. Any words of advice or encouragement? I hate feeling sick to my stomach everytime he calls me. I’m almost happier when he doesn’t. I love him dearly but all this drama just wears me out.
Hi Serena,
Being strong and allowing your son to experience the full consequences of his choices is the best thing you can do. You mentioned your son calls you twice a day, and how the phone calls and his wanting out are very stressful to you and you don’t want to enable him. There is no rule or requirement that you must accept two phone calls per day. For me personally, even once every single day complaining about how unfair the situation is (that he chose for himself) is too much stress and drama. If it were me, I would set some boundaries that he can call you three or four times per week, but twice a day is a bit much in my opinion. Of course he’s hoping that the things he tells you and how what he did isn’t so bad etc will get to you emotionally and will cause you to take some action he’s wanting. Of course he’s scared – but being scared about what his life in prison would be like if he doesn’t straighten up would be a heck of a lot scarier than what he’s feeling now. Let me be scared – let him think about the choices he’s been making and how those choices are and have been affecting his life, and his future. Don’t be at his beck and call regarding phone calls and/or visitations. Step back and allow him to deal with the natural consequences of his personal choices. Hang tough and be supportive emotionally, but don’t break down and allow his complaints to get to you. That is the best thing you can do to really help him wake up to the realities of his choices.
Hi Serena,
I just stumbled upon this website and felt as though I had to say something to your statement…..I too have a son who sounds very similar to yours……he is 24 and I have been struggling with him for what seems like forever….once again I am going to drive 2 hours away to pick him up at the Greyhound station and then try to find somewhere someplace for him to get help……my life is so much more pleasant when I do not hear from him..which is so sad to say…….I have 2 other children raised in the same house and they are both responsible….I would love to learn how to lose the enabling……..
best to you……..
Jan
I have finally come to the realization that I am guilty of enabling my 30 year old daughter. She is a divorced mother of two children and has a masters degree. She just quit her job because of too much stress and is planning to move in with my husband and me. I am prepared to give her a deadline, but expect that she will find a man to live with and take my grandchildren with her. I am able to accept that she may make a bad decision, but am scared for my grandchildren. The spend a lot of time with my husband and me and truthfully we have parented them more than their mother.
Hi Rose, your situation is a common one for many parents. Realizing that you’ve been enabling your daughter is the first step towards stopping the enabling. If there is any possible way for you to NOT allow your daughter to move in with you, even temporarily with a deadline, all of you will be much better off in the long run. Many, many parents have emailed me that they’ve allowed their adult child to move in with a set deadline almost written in stone, only to find that their “child” ignores the deadline and comes up with excuse after excuse that they can’t afford to move out “right now” and how hard they’re trying to find a job etc. It often turns into two or three years later that the parents put their foot down firmly and basically kick their adult child out of the house. The “child” often moves in with friends for awhile and then manage to move into their own place, because they have to finally start acting like an adult and not a whiny teenager who refuses to grow up.
Parenting adult children isn’t an easy task. Letting go and allowing them the freedom to make their own choices and deal with the natural consequences of their choices requires parents to be tough and stay tough. Don’t allow concerns about your grandchildren to put you in a position where you find yourself being manipulated, blackmailed or threatened by your adult daughter over visitation with your grandchildren. I’ve heard from numerous parents who are currently dealing with grown children who refuse to allow the grandparent time with the grandchildren, all in an attempt to manipulate and control the parents. Don’t fall for it. Good luck Rose!
Hi, Rose.
I just wanted to add something that you and Lin have probably already thought of, but didn’t say in your comments. Have you talked to your daughter about why she feels she had so much stress she had to quit her job? Maybe she doesn’t realize that many women have to raise children by themselves and not only work one job, but many times TWO stressful jobs or more! It would be great if no one had to deal with these circumstances, but it is reality. Maybe if she didn’t have you and your husband there to take her in she would figure out how to make her life work on her own. I wish you luck. Like Lin says, deadlines may not work and YOU may have more stress than you need with more people to take care of.
I am writing to update my current situation with our son. A while back I wrote about our son who borrowed and kept holding his hand out for more. He convinced us he had changed and held his hand out once more. We thought we were helping and again we enabled. He has defaulted on this most recent loan also. “When we expected him to be on time with the most recent payments, he said “we were all about money” and “money mongers”. It was easy for him to blame us for wanting our money back. My husband refuses to bring him to court and I have decided our marriage is more important than being right.
We feel foolish to have wanted to believe in him but we realize now that he will probably never learn. He is not in our lives but we are stronger now and can handle the distance. I wish I did not have to admit I did it again. I know now that you need to let them fall. They will learn NOTHING until you do. We have 2 daughters to focus on and be grateful for. We feel stronger and united in our decision to let go and look forward. Thank you Lin, for everything.
Hi Debbie, please don’t feel “foolish” or guilty in any way. It takes time to realize where the priorities are for many young people and adult children in order to put a stop to any enabling.
You and your hubby really felt and believed in your hearts that you were helping your son, and you helped him with the best of intentions. Your son’s blaming you for supposedly being “all about the money” or being “money mongers” etc is a classic and typical tactic used by grown kids and teenagers too to try and get what they want from their parents.
It’s been really sad to hear from so many parents and grandparents in their elderly years who have emailed me about these “helping vs enabling” articles, where they have explained their personal situations with a son, daughter or grandchildren always asking for money. So many have said that the money has been the only real “relationship” had between these parents and kids, otherwise the parents/grandparents never see or hear from these “kids” until there is another request for money or “help” with paying off a debt or getting a new car loan etc. The end results that have come from those situations have been very very sad.
I’ve lost count of how many elderly folks have said their life savings is almost gone now because of helping so much, and they’re worried now about how they themselves will provide for their own needs when all the money is gone. Some have said their own money is virtually wiped out and when they asked for help from those they had already helped, suddenly the phone calls and visits all came to a complete stop. Heartbreaking indeed. Hang in there Debbie.
I wanted to add another thought on enabling adult children. While on vacation, a woman of 80 plus years was sharing how she was no longer going to help her adopted son with money. She was a woman of means and felt she should continue to give her son money for cars and life’s expenses. She was FINALLY realizing what a mistake it was. It will not end until we wake up! Lets not wait until we are in our golden years.
Oh Dear God, I am “home.” To have a community of those who are experiencing what I am helps me not feel quite so stupid. I’ve been rolling a title around in my mind about “Crippling our Children,” and now realize it is already in print! Wish I had not learned the hard was as many are describing above.
In my case, I thought I was helping finish my children after their wealthy father manipulated them to declare themselves emancipated and walked out – and now realize the concern is not returned. Part of the damage was done in their early years when he found it easier to hand them things “if they were well-behaved, nice, or mostly if it made HIM look successful to do so.”
One of our early issues was that I wanted them to learn the value of money and the skills they had to earn it. He wanted them to have a better (easier) life than he had and did not see the long-term price for showering them with more than they needed. What a dual-edged gift.
Still, I made the mistake of thinking I could teach them later in life and it has taken until I have nothing more to give, to give them what I hoped they would know as they grew.
They also were never given the gift of compassion, so now I am an unpleasant reminder of someone who thought they would reciprocate in the smallest of ways.
I thought wrong.
Hi Geri,
Sorry to hear you’ve been experiencing the problems associated with the entitlement epidemic in society, and how parents have been enabling their children of all ages to get to where “kids” are today.
When kids become adults and use manipulative tactics to get parents to give them money or pay their bills (that they’ve brought on themselves), the ONLY way to teach adult children how to be responsible with money and finances, is to say NO more help at all. Zero money, zero help. If the kids fall on their faces financially, they have to learn how to get themselves out of the mess they created. Parents that “help” their grown children pay off debts etc only put themselves in harms way financially, because the “help” is never ending.
Parents are crippling their adult children by continuously helping, even with the best intentions.
It is my personal opinion, and the opinion of many respected financial experts, that the problems began many years ago (because of the depression) that parents have continued to say they want their kids to have it easier than they did, have it better than they did when they were growing up etc. Because of that mindset of wanting to make things easy on kids, parents have created the monster of entitlement and the evidence is found throughout society and that includes very young children and teenagers.
The long term effects have been shown time after time, with examples of parents who find themselves broke and going through bankruptcy themselves because of “helping” their kids and wanting their kids to “have it easier” than they did. One very sad story I heard recently by email is from a mother and father who “helped” (really enabled) their two grown sons throughout their lives, and paid off huge debts of various kinds for these “kids”, and now the parents find themselves desperately seeking help for themselves in their elderly years because their children refuse to help the parents now. The parents money is all used up and gone. Retirement money and life savings spent on these grown kids, and now the parents are living below poverty level and unable to afford some of their own basic needs, despite the fact that both sons now have high paying jobs and will not lift a finger to help their parents who are now in their 70′s.
Geri, you are definitely not alone in these problems with grown children. It’s a rampant problem in society today, and these entitled kids don’t give a damn about anyone but themselves.
Hi, Geri.
Lin is well aware of the enabling my husband has done with regard to his sons over the years, and her advice is so right on! She can help all of us. I’m still hanging in there with my husband, but it’s taking so long for him to see what he has done to his kids. At least he listens sometimes to my “suggestions” and I hear him telling his sons what I told him (as his ideas) so that they know they have to work harder to find employment no matter what it takes.
Just want my husband to be more proactive about telling his sons to do it or be cut off. He DID get son #2 to move in with mom when it became evident that son #2 would not get a job anytime soon. It helps a bit, but son #2 has been here every month for at least a week at a time since he moved in June. Wedding, job interviews, etc. Unfortunately, it looks like he isn’t looking for work in a state where they ARE hiring. Just wants to come back here. Not possible. No jobs, but daddy does still let him come back every month hoping he will find work, and pays for it! At least most of the time, he stays with friends.
These are not young men (older one is 47 & younger one is 39)!! They have been supported for so many years by their parents that we all could have had our houses paid for by now & new cars paid off. Just in the past ten years, my husband alone has spent in excess of $200K on them! His ex has spent a lot of her fixed income on them recently and is now asking my husband to do more.
The older one (son #1) had not worked in at least a year (and not much before that because he gets fired from most jobs or walks out before he gets fired). He just started a part time job earlier this month so we’ll see how long this lasts. He still owes us back rent and credit card debt in the amount of $50K, but not expecting to see that paid back! Even with a rental agreement he did not pay us! What a guy! How irresponsible can anyone get?
The younger one started college (AGAIN) ten years ago, but did not graduate until Jan. of this year. It took him almost 10 years to get a 4 year degree because of his laziness and immaturity. Just played for most of the time. Now, of course, there are no jobs for him so he is being supported by daddy and mommy. Daddy even did what I have asked him not to do again – co-signed for a loan for son #2 (just like son #1).
So you see, if we do not get through to our kids what is expected of them when they are very young, they will never learn to grow up. This is a big mistake that too many parents make today. They are raising or have raised kids who can’t do anything for themselves except to ask for more money. No wonder they agree with the current political climate of even more entitlement. Too bad your husband was such a shortsighted person not to see how he was ruining his kids. Typical.
Like a lot of the entitled ones, my husband’s sons hate corporate America and wall street (this is being fed to many young and not so young people these days and they buy into it), and blame everyone else for their failure to “have things.” If they don’t work, they don’t deserve to have anything!! We all had to work. Our parents and grandparents had to work.
I am sorry for going on and on. I’m just so upset. I certainly don’t want to lose everything just because of a couple of brats who think the world owes them.
My own kids don’t think that way. They have all been hard workers and know they have to make it on their own unless they are extremely ill, handicapped, or lose their jobs through no fault of their own. THEN I will help them as much as I can. I am semi-retired and can’t find much work now so it is difficult to help anyone. My husband is fully retired and SHOULD NOT be helping anyone.
I just want parents to stop the madness and have expectations for their kids. It’s the only way this entitlement mentality will go away. Let them do without. Let them feel the pinch. When all is said and done, they WILL find a way to help themselves.
Hi! Betty – Lin and all – I liked Betty’s comments – Oh to have her strength. My son hasn’t called for 2 weeks – but at 3;30PM today and asked what I was doing for Thanksgiving – he guessed he would just stay at home (he stays with a friend) – has no car – phone has been cut off – and made me feel sad – I offered to go and get him (about 70 miles round trip) and also cook a turkey – he asid he has to work on Thanksgiving until 4:00pm – I again offered to pick him up after work – but he just sounded down and said since he had no phone (bill needed paying) he would not be able to call me – I said “Call Collect” – but he said there is no phone in the house – so he guessed he would just be home by himself. Well if that dosen’t make me feel bad what will. I cannot afford to pay his cellular bill (his only expense) – all this is because of me enabling him for the past 10 years – I hope what Betty said “When all is said and done – they will find a way to help themselves – will come true for my some – and I hope I am alive to see it.
Happy Thanksgiving to All
Sue
Hi Sue,
I know it’s hard sometimes to stay strong, especially around the holidays, but you have to stay strong. Based on a few emails I’ve received over the last week or so, it appears that “some” kids are really ramping up the guilt trips on parents and are pulling out all the stops to get money from the parents. Hang tough – the enabling didn’t happen in one night, and the solution of stopping the enabling won’t happen overnight either. Stay tough. Happy Thanksgiving to all of you!
Thanks, Sue, and hello to all! Let’s hope that our staying strong will help our kids. The holidays are HORRIBLE without family, but sometimes it is necessary so people will look at themselves and see where they’re going in life (at least I like to think it does). This is such a difficult time for our country, as we all know. Our children (big and little) need more than ever to learn that these are tough times and they must contribute to the good of their families, not keep putting pressure on their families to “come through” with money that doesn’t exist to give to their kids. We don’t need to bankrupt ourselves just because our kids don’t know how to do for themselves. Like Lin said, it didn’t happen overnight so it will take time to resolve the problems.
Just an update on our current situation with our son. I have written in the past about our son who has “borrowed” money from us. Well its tough love time. In Aug he was three months behind on his $200 a month payment. His debt was at 19,000. It would have been decades of payments before he paid up. My husband was fed up and my son refused to answer the phone. My husband left a nasty message out of frustration. Because of that he says he is angry with his dad and I suppose with me too. His girlfriend called and yelled for 1 1/2hours and I listened (fool) to everything WE did wrong.Some of her comments had me shaking my head…… The nerve of us to expect the money back and for sending him to college. We should have known he was not ready and saved our money for a later date. JOKE! She said we have ruined our relationship with him and hopes we can REDEEM ourselves to have one with grandchildren when they come.
Well we have not heard from him since then. I did mail a card for the holiday and never heard from him. He TEXTED his sisters but not us. Both girls were with us for dinner. Both live home (17 and 22) Our 22 is in nursing school and our youngest in high school. Both achieved National Honor Society and have zero debt and pay everything cash! Its hard to not have him visiting but someday I hope he will come around. We have learned to never lend to him again. We paid the debt off and are moving on.
Although financially it did not hurt us, it still does not make it right!!! I wish everyone would realize that just because the money is there or is not there, we need to let them fend for themselves anyway. They will never learn if we continue this endless giving. We owe them nothing and they are entitled to nothing. Love should be enough and respect should exist which it just does not with this generation. Christmas will be difficult but my shopping list is shorter and will stay that way. Someday we will earn his respect by just being his parents…I pray!
Dear Debbie.
How sad that you son is the only one of your kids to “miss out” on being with family on a holiday because he has not matured. I hope that someday he will grow up enough to understand why you had to use tough love with him and will be back in your lives.
I commend you for realizing that he needed tough love and following through. I wish my husband would get to that point. It is so much better in the long run for us to use that tool to help our children grow up.
Parents who think they still have a responsibility to their children when their children reach middle age, and won’t stop the enabling, are really control freaks, I think. It won’t stop until they are gone. Then, their children will try to find someone else to do the enabling so that they will never have to grow up. What a shame.
We sold our 2 sons (ages 26 & 23) rental homes on a land contracts. One has not paid in 3 months & was behind then. The other has a wife with 2 children & doesn’t make complete payments. His wife is a large part of the finacial prolem. We are having a very difficult time dealing with this. My husband does not like to confront them. I think it is time to get confrontational about this but we need to stand side by side on this. Any advice?
Linda, much of the problem often lies where one parent is willing to confront issues and the other is not. Unwillingness to confront issues, whether financial or personal etc, is the typical reaction of an enabler. “Gotta keep the peace”, “can’t make waves” and so on. Ugh…
If the sale of the homes included legal contracts that were agreed to and signed by all involved parties, it is a legally binding contract that all must abide by. The fact that the contract is between family members doesn’t mean the contract isn’t to be adhered to in all areas. If your husband was (obviously) in agreement to sell the homes to your sons on a contracted legal agreement, it is a very serious matter to enforce the rules of the contract.
Your husband is sending the boys the wrong message. He’s basically telling the boys that he’s GIVING the homes to them and even though there is a legally binding contract, he doesn’t care whatsoever if they pay or don’t pay. Your husband needs to answer whether or not the “sale” of the homes to your sons was a SALE or a GIFT.
From all appearances, and the fact the “kids” aren’t paying as legally required by the contract, they presume that since the contract is “just between us and our parents”…it’s really no big deal.
The “kids” may very well be thinking, even in the backs of their subconscious minds:
1. It’s just our parents, so we don’t have to worry about paying the mortgage payments because our parents won’t evict us.
2. We are parents to their grandchildren, so our parents won’t evict us or threaten to evict us because we have their grandchildren and they wouldn’t want their grandkids “living on the streets” and………
3. They can (and often DO) use the grandchildren as emotional blackmail over parents who are trying to make grown children be financially responsible.
If your husband agrees that the sale of the homes was a SALE and not a GIFT, then it is vitally important that both of you stand side by side and get as tough as necessary to the get the payments paid and on time each and every month.
If your husband is so concerned about any possible emotional black mail due to the grandchildren, you both may want to consider getting/hiring a real estate management company to oversee payments are made, and where necessary legal actions are taken BY the management company and not directly initiated by you and your husband. I would suggest at least having a consultation with your attorney to get legal advice and options, as well as a consultation with a couple management companies to see if that would be a good option for you.
Either way, continuing to allow this to go on…will only mean it will continue to go on and get worse. Much much worse.
Three months turns into 1 year and it goes on and on. What would a landlord do, EVICT! Its tough love but it will teach them to stand up on thier own. When you are unable to keep supporting them thier meal ticket stops. The sooner they learn the lesson to stand on thier own, the better it will be.
I have talked with seniors who are still supporting thier children. Just because they have money does not mean the children are entitled to it.
The saddest thing I see working in a nursing home is when a family member comes in and borrows money from a resident who has only $40 in thier account. It goes on and on right to the end. End it now.
Linda, I fully agree with Lin and Debbie. Those are legal contracts and should be honored! We had trouble with my husband’s oldest son who signed a rental contract with us, but never paid a cent in the 3-4 years he lived in the house (there was also another contract not honored by him). My husband is the enabler in our family so I should have known.
I am curious about one thing. Why did you and your husband do this for your young sons? If they are not mature individuals and have no sense of responsibility why do they have homes? I guess I’m trying to say that I believe young people should either rent for awhile (until they save some sort of down payment on their own), or do the buying with a LEGAL BINDING CONTRACT for repayment of the down if that is what the way parents want to help. The “kids” can pay back on the contract, but the sum would be much smaller than a mortgage so more easily paid back.
This is something we may be doing for my son and his family when they are ready to buy, again. They will get help with a down, but will have to purchase the home themselves. We don’t have the means to give anyone a house. We are both retired so the support we give to his “kids” (old kids) hurts. I sure don’t want us to be among those in a nursing home who have his kids “borrowing” money from us all the time. Does that make sense?
Betty, Lin & Debbie,
Thank you for your replies. Everything is what I agree with. You ask why we sold the boys the houses. The market crashed, the one rental was not renting for over a year & the other house was an investment we bought(right before the crash)to flip, which we would now never recoup our money on if we sold at today’s market prices so we figured we could come out ahead to sell to the boys. My husband said he would be happy if they would just pay enough to cover the insurance, taxes & utilities. Oh yea! The utilities are still in our name, too!!! Plus, you cannot insure an empty house unless you pay an insanely high premium. Actually, I knew it was never going to work. I was very reluctant to do this. We should have just cut out loses & be done with it. Yes, the grandchildren are a concern & I’m sure they see that as a blanket. My husband said we were all going to have a sit-down and lay it on the line after the holidays. I keep asking when & he will not give me a commited time. I am really fed up. …and, you know what these kids got us for Christmas? Nothing!!! I am seeing red!!!
Linda, I’m so sorry you’re going through all this and how it’s affected your Christmas holiday. The stall tactics are classic enabler behavior. Say they’re going to do x,y,z and yadda, yadda, yadda and months go by and still nothing is done.
I don’t normally announce a new blog I’ve started, but I think you’ll get a kick out a post I did recently, that I’m positive you can relate to this, given what you said in your comment. Check this out and see if you don’t agree with what I said regarding the oh so popular saying It’s the Thought That Counts but does it really? (Not!) I’m pulling for you Linda, and hoping your hubby will see the light before all heck breaks loose.
Thank you, Lin. I appreciate your support & feel everything you were saying in your blog. Thank you so much for sharing. I just have to get out of this depressive funk & amp up my strength to get things moving. I am not a depressive person but after I recieved negative comments from both my father & father-in-law at the holiday about our sons, then when asked at work “what did you get for Christmas?”, my co-workers went off about what is wrong with our sons…blah, blah, blah…& I am sure the room was churning when I had to leave to go do something. Then to further distract & add burden, my father-in-law’s declining health is right on the front line to be addressed of what is going to need to be done. He lives alone & should not be. So Happy New Year! Thank you for allowing me to vent! God Bless You!
Linda, Betty, Sue, Debbie, Geri (and any others) – I thought I would pass along the link to one of my most recent posts here because of how we’ve talked about “people pleasing” and how being a people pleaser relates soooo much with being an enabler. I do believe you’ll all enjoy what I have to say about People Pleasers and Doormats and it all is related. Enjoy!
I made a post recently that I’m not seeing here. Basically it said, “What would they do if I died.” It is the bottom line of a situation that we become entangled with. No, I’m not suggesting literally offing yourself. I am suggesting you ask the question, “What would they do if I weren’t here to fix it for them?” and then having the benefit of getting to watch them figure out how to handle it.
Obviously I did not learn this the easy way, but it is the standard by which I now have the relationship with my adult children when they prefer to be children not adults. There is no better time for them to sit in jail, or lose their car, or whatever the ramification are, as they won’t learn it otherwise.
Today is the first day of the rest of their lives too, and you may as well let them begin to learn while you are here to applaud!
Geri, I remember your comment about that and went looking for it, and found it is posted up a ways in a reply to me I think.
You make a great point Geri. If parents really sit and think about what their grown children would do if the parents were no longer around or suddenly passed away etc, these “kids” would figure things out real….fast.
Need creates motivation and what quicker motivation would there be if mom and/or dad weren’t there to rescue them anymore, financially, jail, bail bondsmen, rent, groceries, car insurance etc etc.
Just today I ran into a friend who shared a quick story about her son. He makes more money than thier family does combined. He came to them at Christmas no less and asked for a $600 because his lease car was going to be taken away. They simply said “NO”. He worked out a deal with the lease company and now he is paying to own the same vehicle.
What bothers me is that she said I don’t have that kind of money lying around. Those of us that do feel we have no excuse. Well we do, its our money!!!! Not thiers!!!! They need to earn thier own, spend thier own and leave ours alone. It starts with saying “NO”.
Debbie, that is a great example of how these “kids” figure things out on their own….IF parents allow them to.
Dear Lin,
Wow! Did I EVER see myself on the people pleaser site! Actually, I am trying very hard to lose that image. I let my ex do so much harm to me when I was going through the extreme people pleaser phase. At least with my present husband I am going in the other direction. I was so tied up before that I didn’t even HAVE a personality anymore or self-confidence when I was with my ex! He even had our kids being very disrespectful to me because of the way he treated me. I felt so free when he left even though it tore our family apart. I’m afraid I am not very forgiving to him and his wife. They did harm to our daughters (not our son because he’s a success), and continue it to this day. I just try to love my girls as much as possible so they know they are valued as people.
Now for what I’m doing with my ‘enabler’ husband and his sons. I am saying “NO” when my husband’s younger son wants to stay with us when he comes for a ‘visit’ to our state from his Mom’s place. AND, if my husband even mentions having him live with us, I just say “NO.” Won’t happen!
This younger son still doesn’t have a job because he refuses to try any state other than where WE live. It’s obvious that there are no jobs he can get here because of his lack of experience and post-graduate degree, but he keeps pushing it and comes down every month for a week to ‘see’ what’s out there. You won’t believe what dad and son said recently!! Thought son should go back to school for an engineering degree! I couldn’t believe what I was hearing! This was the son who took close to ten years to get a four year degree and doesn’t have the skills for high level math and science! What were they thinking! I hope they were kidding. I asked my husband how many more years would it take for THAT to happen! Sheesh!
I found a government job that would have been just right for younger son, but he said he didn’t see it on-line and it was too late to apply. Clarification: He apparently does NOT check web sites everyday like he says he does because he would have seen the posting in time to apply (the job is in Indiana). I think he still says what his parents want to hear. If my husband and his ex want to go broke enabling their sons, so be it, but my husband had better be prepared for a fight if he tries to spend MY half of our retirement!! I guess that sounds mean, but I’m so tired of these freeloaders and their drama. I think the whole family is dysfunctional!
Betty,
That people pleaser article is on THIS site; it’s just one of the most recent ones people see when they click on the “home” button at the top left of the page. Today I think I posted 4 different articles, haha. I’m glad you are able to recognize the people pleaser tendencies that so many others don’t recognize within themselves. Stay tough!
Sue,
I see a comment from you came through to my email but I don’t see it here. That makes me think you may have hit the “reply” button when you got the email saying there were more comments on this article. If you hit reply, it only comes to me and no one else sees it here. If you don’t mind, would you please copy and paste your message directly here on the site so me and others can respond to you?
Wow, did these articles hit home with me! I totally am responsible for creating this nightmare situation with my 31-year-old son.
Background: since the age of 15 – all during high school, he held part-time jobs. Upon graduation, he attended two semesters at a technical school. He then went to work in a factory for about two years and then went to college full-time. He did not work while attending college. I 100% financially supported him during the four years he attended college, wanting him to concentrate on his studies. He did get his Bachelor’s in Human Development and Family Studies. Graduated in August 2008. He has yet to get a job – even a part-time job; and isn’t even looking! It’s one excuse after another.
No wonder there’s no urgency in him finding employment. He lives in a house which I inherited … no rent payment … I pay all utilities … I pay his truck and motorcycle insurance … I pay his motorcyle payments … I give him money for groceries … I pay for his fuel for his truck … he has directv and the internet, which I pay for … Holy Cow! What the heck is wrong with me? I created a monster. The only comforting thing is that there are others out there who have made the same mistakes as I have.
This “tough love” is going to be tough on me. I’m a very caring and giving individual, especially as a mother. And saying “no” is not going to be easy. But reading how I’m being used and taken advantage of, etc. is going to harden my heart some to do what so desperately needs to be done.
Thank you so much!
Hi Diane,
Can I come and live with you? haha, just kidding of course, but you now realize you’ve created a monster. Seriously, what “kid” in his right mind would think to himself: “Hmm, mom pays for everything I want or need, so why in the world would I even consider doing something like get a job to take care of myself? Especially since the “job” will probably not pay as much as mom pays for me to live this way! Mom is doing all the work for me so that I can continue living as I’ve been accustomed to living, so why don’t I just stay HERE and do nothing to find a job and have to move out?”
Diane, I hate to be the one to tell you but… you son is ever so graciously stepping back and allowing YOU to do his work for him. You are holding down his job for him, in every way that matters, to him. Look at all the things you’ve been paying for to keep him accustomed to his lifestyle. That phrase “lifestyle I’ve become accustomed to” reminds me of ex-wives and ex-husbands who get alimony to “keep them in the lifestyle they’ve been accustomed to” living in. But, your son?
Anyway, I’m glad these articles have been a wake up call for you. Put the brakes on, stop this train wreck before it goes any further. Yes it will be tough on you emotionally, but the “giving” person that you are knows deep down inside that there are more ways to be a giving person than opening your wallet to a grown child and saying Take what you want, when you want it, how much you want, and come back tomorrow to take some more. He’s doing the taking and you’re doing the giving. Over and over and over.
Think about it – what would your son do if God forbid, something happened to you today and you passed away. What would he do to sustain himself? He’d get a job, cut out everything that he doesn’t really NEED (like cable, internet, cell phone, motorcycle + the insurance), and he’d work his rear end off to make the money he NEEDS to eat, pay his rent, pay his truck insurance, pay for his gas. All by himself. Like grownups do. Even if it meant getting TWO jobs, or maybe even three including weekends.
Hi Lin, I have a similar problem as Diane except it may daughter, a single parent with a 6-yr old daughter. My granddaughter’s father pays minimal child support ($325/month) and is now taking her to court because he wants to pay nothing. (Says he is not working, but just finished degree.)
My daughter has always had trouble in school and relationships and was diagnosed as depressed as early as 4th grade..but has always fought counseling even though several attempts were made. Eventually diagnosed as ADD but not until her senior yr in high school. She dropped out of college. She has her own business (pet services) but it does not nearly cover her costs. She lives in my parents house which I inherited…she is supposed to at least pay enough rent to pay taxes and utilities…none in 4 years. In addition, she now has a “girlfriend” that has lived there for a year and still has not paid anything! even though i have asked repeatedly.
I know she will be unable to find a decent place (or any place) for what she makes (yet refuses to take any courses to further her career)…she blows up easily and if i defend myself, etc. she argues so hard that I truly believe she does not know what she has said; and his very defensive about anything (I believe she should be on some meds or have counseling, but she denies there is a problem. She actually is a very kind and sweet person otherwise (I know that sounds stupid, but it is true.)
Anyway, if she was not responsible for my granddaugher (who lived with us for 1 year and has lived next door since)I would make her get out of the house, but what about my grandaughter?? I also do not think her father is a good parent. I feel like I am being held hostage…and I am running out of money. (My husband is now disabled, and I was laid off in november…there just is not enough money and i have told her so. I luv her dearly, but am so disappointed she will not get more education, etc…What will they do when I die????I don’t know and that is what I fear most (i am 61).
Hi Bonnie,
Let’s play the What IF game. What IF something unexpected and untimely happened to you today, and you AND your husband passed away today. Terrible car wreck or something like that. What would your daughter do to get by in life, to take care of herself and her child? The possibilities are endless, but you can rest assured that she do whatever she felt was necessary to be able to feed herself and her child. One of the primary needs we have is to EAT. When I say Need Creates Motivation, that includes the need to eat. To have a place to live comes next.
Bonnie, I wouldn’t be at all surprised if your daughter and her “girlfriend” were miraculously able to find a place to live all by themselves, when they find they HAVE to. When they are given the deadline date of when they have to be out of the house, and you make crystal clear that there will be no extensions given to the deadline, you will find your daughter suddenly has a lot more ENERGY as she scrambles to find where she and her daughter will live. She (and now the girlfriend) aren’t paying and haven’t paid for 4 years because she hasn’t been made to realize that her living there was a business transaction, where she was required to pay x,y,z. Repeatedly asking, pleading, crying etc etc for the money owed is not the same thing as being required to fulfill a financial responsibility or obligation that was taken on. What happens if YOU don’t pay for something? You lose it. Your car would be re-po’d, your house would be foreclosed on etc.
Question: What does a “decent” place to live mean? A decent place by whose standards? Standards the “kid” had become accustomed to throughout their growing up years? A decent place is wherever grown adult children CHOOSE to be able to afford to live. The “kid” has the power and ability within them to find a job and maintain a job that will provide the necessities in life, even if that “decent place” is a sub-standard, lower income, section-8 apartment in the city.
We all had to start somewhere. MOST young adults do not start out grown up life living in the nicest, most expensive, upper class neighborhoods in town. Parents, think about where you lived the first time you went out on your own, regardless of whether you were married or not. Was your very first place a diamond-studded apartment, with marble floors and granite counter tops? I highly doubt it. It took some hard work and some time and sacrifice to establish yourself in your life and work in order to get to where you are today.
A decent place for these young adults to live is wherever they CHOOSE to be able to afford to live. If they want to live in a nicer/more prestigious neighborhood, then they have to work for it just like the rest of us did. If they want to drive nicer cars, versus always driving a beater, then they have to work hard for it just like we did. These “kids” will absolutely, most definitely use grandchildren as pawns in this dog fight. It’s called manipulation and these “kids” are masterful puppeteers. Stop people pleasing, walking on egg shells, worrying about “rockin the boat” etc etc. The enabling behaviors will go on for as long as parents allow it to go on. When parents stop enabling, the kids will have no other choice but to do what they coulda, shoulda, woulda done years ago.
I realize I am enabling her (probably somewhat from guilt–other family problems…heart attacks, young son being seriously hurt when hit by car, plus…). I have no problem making her make her own way if it weren’t for my granddaughter who I am very close to. Her father has been using the courts to “harass” my daughter (even according to new lawyer), since she was 1 year old, whenever, my daughter does not do what he wants even he has no basis to do so; my grandaughter stays with him every other weekend..as she has become older, she comes home and tells her mother (or me) that he said her mother is a bad parent, etc. etc. etc.,
She has enough stress to deal with; she wants to stay with her mother AND wants to be near my husband and I (we live next door, but further back). I cannot bear for her to have to live in a city or in Section 8 housing where the schools are not good (even by State standards)and other living conditions could be dangerous. (We live in small town/rural area). I know I am making excuses, but do not know if, morally, I should do this.
Hi, Lin
I sure wish my husband could sit down with you and listen, really listen to what you have to say. I tried to talk to him this evening about his son & our expenses after HE mentioned it, but I got the defensive attitude again. Sigh. I think he knows what he’s doing is wrong, but he can’t admit it. He thinks they had a plan, but a plan involves having a timeline for completion of a project. I think that is a mistake parents make. Not giving their children a deadline for the time they will be supported while in school like 4-5 years only. It doesn’t seem to come up that if the kids don’t finish during that time, they will be on their own and will have to pay their own expenses. It really isn’t fair to either party if rules aren’t put in place at the beginning. There should not be any surprises, for the most part. Of course there may be exceptions, but usually there aren’t.
Lin – I cannot figure out how to cut and paste – could you do it for me?? sue
Sue, I tried to find your comment message in the archives of my emails but I’m not finding it. If you could forward the email to me with your comment in it, I’d be happy to post it for you.
Wow !!!!!
I am getting extremly depressed because I had to kick my 30 yr. old son out for stealing from me….history… Divorced his mom when he was 10 raised him alone, gave him almost everything he wanted thought I had raised him right. After he had two failed marrages,two children to pay child support working at minium wage jobs he is always broke..So I let him move back in with me. While he was trying to have a life and no money I felt sorry for
him with no money to date..so I help him a little..then he would need money for something else then he would need gas money ..It was always something… It got to the point that
he was acting like I owed it to him..
He made me fell guilty at times …
…….Then I Found out he stole money from me.
that I had been saving for something for myself. That was the last straw…Now he went to stay with his Mother and Stepfather (who doesn’t have much money ) But I’m sitting at home
deppresed because I didn’t want to kick him
out but felt he could learn a lesson!!
I know now that I was an enabler but feel I
waited to long … I only hope he will not
hate me !!!!!!
Hi James,
What you’re feeling right now is what many parents are going through. You are not alone. Your son is not going to hate you. He may feel angry right now and may say horrible things to you, or he may not even want to talk to you for a bit. But, he does NOT hate you. Pay close attention if he ever says anything along the lines of him using that fear you have against you. It’s a verrrry common tactic for these “kids” to use against their parents, to get their way.
It is never ever too late to stop being an enabler. If you’ve read any of the comments in these “enabling” articles, you’ve probably seen a number of parents whose “kids” are in their 40′s and even 50′s and are still enabling their grown children. You don’t have to be that parent in ten or twenty more years.
Your son has acted like you owed it to him to pay for everything he wants or “needs”. Of course he does, they all do. You are the bank of mom and dad for him, and you cut him off from his gravy train, and he’s of course reacting to that.
I’ve said it over and over and I’m going to keep saying it until parents realize it deep down in their souls: Need creates motivation.
Many of the searches people do to find these enabling articles is something along the lines of “children not motivated to work and take care of themselves”, “adult children always asking for money”, “adult son/daughter won’t work”. These kids are not motivated to work, get a job and keep a job because the bank of mom and dad supplies their every want, whim and need. Kids of all ages, including adult children, believe their parents OWE them everything they want or “need”. Why?
Because the parents have spent their entire lives catering to their children and giving them what they want so the kids will “like” them, “love” them and be nice to the parent. To the point where parents are or have spent their retirement savings and have gone into bankruptcy to “help” their kids. Then the parents reach an age where they themselves are truly needing help, and the “kids” start searching online for information on “What do children OWE their parents”, because they suddenly feel “burdened” to take care of their aging/elderly parent when THEY need help.
James, spend a couple days thinking about and perhaps re-reading the articles about enabling grown children and consider the article linked above about being a people pleaser. Really think about it and what you need to do to stop enabling your son. Need creates motivation.
Thank you Lin
I will re-read the articles..it helps to know that I’m doing the right thing for my son
even when he doesn’t relize it yet!
I, like any parent wants their children to
be able to take care of themselves when we are
to old to do it or have passed on.
I’ve read plenty of stories here about deadbeat kids, but now it is time to hear a story about deadbeat parents who take this tough love crap to the extreme and make their kids life a living hell.
In 2006, I returned home from college and an internship. I figured that I would stay at home and work until I could find a full time job in the hospitality industry. Within a week, I get hired at the local hotel making $7 an hour and getting at least 32 to 35 hours, but still it was better than nothing. My parents never once said anything about paying rent or voiced any concerns about me staying there.
Then, a month into living there, I get told that I am disrupting their household and making things so difficult for them. My mom tells me that she knew that this wasn’t going to work out the minute I asked if I could live with them for a few months. I think they were really mad because I wouldn’t loan them money when asked because I was trying to save up for moving out.
In a nutshell, I have to move out and live in another apartment because they were not going to “enable me.” After looking at all the apartments in town and not being able to afford any of them on my meager salary, they find a horrible apartment for $400 including utilities.
Literally, I am making no money because the rest of my $600 a month check after taxes is being spent on food, phone, gasoline, and other expenses including a broken heater core for my car costing me over $700. The whole time my parents are bragging to everyone how they have taught me to live on my own.
Then for the next five months I am looking for work, I am subjected to constant harassment by my parents. No matter how many times that I tell them I am applying for jobs, they don’t believe me and even claim that I am deliberately sabotaging my job search. They tell me that I expect them to take care of me anytime I get into trouble.
Finally I take the first job that comes available just so I can get away from them and they will leave me alone. Unfortunately, this job was for a terrible hotel and manager and I eventually got axed to cover up his mistake. Well, my wonderful parents only word of advice is to suck it up and find a job in a city with over 10% unemployment.
While I am looking for work, they tell me I am a criminal because I am receiving unemployment. Again, I get told that I am sabotaging my job search or not looking hard enough for work since I haven’t found anything. After four months, I finally found a job at a child welfare center and stayed on for eight months, but the stress and lax standards finally got me out of it.
I decided that I needed to go back to school for another degree because my current bachelors degree was not cutting it. With my lease coming up on my apartment, I found out that my aunt and uncle who lived close by had a room available due to their foster son moving out. They would be happy to have me as long as I pay some rent and help out around the house.
This is great news. I don’t have to take out extra loans for school, I can focus more on studies rather than working, and I can be around friendly people rather than alone in an apartment.
How do my “loving” parents respond to this idea? I am a mooch, a bum, a con-artist, and all sorts of vile things that I will not repeat in this post for what I was. My only intention of moving in with my aunt and uncle was to live with them forever and live off of them the whole time. They were going to call my aunt and uncle and let them know what they needed to do to “protect” themselves from me so I don’t take advantage of them like I did with my parents.
Now after two years and finishing up my degree, I can happily say that everything has been just fine. My aunt, uncle, and I have a great relationship; in fact, I have gotten to know them much better becuase they lived so far away when I was growing up. We have a great time; I am helping them out around the house and with their bills by paying rent. They really enjoy my company.
After moving in with my aunt and uncle, I no longer have any contact whatsoever with my parents. They don’t exist to me anymore and I am a lot less depressed and unhappy with my situation in life. Now, I have a lot more hope in my chances for the future despite the bad economy. Most important, I know that I am not alone in this world and people really do care about me.
So for all your parents out there, take a real good look at your returning kids. Are they really being a lazy bum sitting on the couch and only watching tv or are they really doing the best they possibly can and not expecting a hand out?
For a long time, my parents convinced me that I was some kind of loser and failure because I couldn’t support myself on my own. That is a recipe for ensuring that your children with fail in life. I understand that you don’t want them to become totally dependent on you, but your kids are always going to need some kind of help whether it is emotionally or financially especially in this chaotic world of today.
I hope that if anything my story will make parents think carefully and not go overboard in their handling of this situation. It can have serious consequences for your future relationship with your children. As far as I am concerned with my parents, they are on their own if they need help in their senior years.
Hi Eric,
Not every adult child fits the description of the kinds of enabling problems we discuss here. Whether you are or are not…is impossible for me to say, since your folks aren’t here to give their side of the story.
There are always two sides to a story, so I can’t possibly throw your parents under the bus, so to speak, as being deadbeat parents who won’t help you as you feel is needed. I take things on a case by case situation, and the discussions often take place by email, rather than all the details being laid out here in the comment section.
Your message about parents needing to decide for sure if their adult child(ren) is being lazy and unmotivated, not wanting and/or not willing to find a job etc, is well said.
I disagree with your comment that “your kids are always going to need some kind of help”…etc etc. Emotional encouragement and associated support etc, true. But kids that are “always going to need help” in a financial way is another thing entirely.
At some point, “kids” need to be financially responsible for themselves (and their own families when that time comes), and not have the expectation that “oh..mom and dad will bail us out” out the financial spot “kids” get themselves into by not being smart with their money. It’s unfortunate that many parents have spent their entire retirement account helping their grown kids, and then when they themselves are needing help in a variety of ways as elderly parents, the kids turn their backs and refuse to help their own parents. Despite the fact that these parents loved, fed, clothes, housed, spent X amount of money on doctor bills…..and my list could go and on. Anyone that knows the kind of money that is required to raise a child to adulthood would understand that HUGE sacrifice parents have done throughout their child’s life, and it is disturbing in many ways when adult children won’t help take care of/provide for/assist in various ways their own parent now that they’ve reached their golden years. Very very sad.
My 18 year old daughter had a baby 4 weeks ago. she moved out after christmas with the father and moved back after the baby was born in February. I was sick for a fews days and she left again, so they “would’nt get sick,” I think it was an excuse to have freedom again. she has’nt called to see how I am. she comes by to pick up diapers or things for the baby. My 21 year old son going to school and working is upset about picking up her and the baby stuff. they share a bathroom. and she leaves dishes and bottles in sink. dirty diapers in room. laundry not done. It’s peaceful when she not here. but I know they can not make it financialy. they father is not mature or educated. they are getting welfare. not looking for jobs or say there aren’nt any. but not really trying. I fell I’m between and rock and a hard place.
Hi Tammy,
Your daughter moved out after Christmas and stayed gone until the baby was born in February, then moved back in except for the time period when you were sick. I’m unsure if your message means that the baby’s father has been living with you as well, or if your daughter moved in with him between xmas and February.
Personally, I don’t see their leaving the second time as an excuse for freedom. You were sick and she had a brand new baby to care for, so it makes sense to protect the newborn baby from getting sick as much as possible. It seems quite reasonable to me.
Have you had discussions with her/them about your expectations/boundaries of what you expect them to do while living in your home? Keeping their stuff picked up, diapers, bottles, the shared bathroom kept clean etc?? I assume that you have and that they’re just not living up to their end of the bargain.
Where did they live when they moved out the two times? A friend? Family member? They’re obviously taking for granted what you’re trying to do to help them. They’re young and immature. Not looking very hard (or at all) for jobs and creating stress and chaos at home for you and your son.
You said “they cannot make it financially” and the “father is not mature or educated”. How were they able to make it during the time they had moved out? How did they eat, shower, sleep? They managed somehow and they will find a way to eat, sleep, shower and care for their baby on their own, even if it means working two or three minimum wage jobs and living with someone else or in low income housing if necessary.
But they won’t feel the motivation or need to make changes and improvements on their situation as long as they have dear mom/grandma doing it all for them. You cannot allow them to use your home as a hotel. Hotels come with daily cleaning service and cafeteria meals – personal homes do not. Your son should not feel as though he must pick up after them just to use the shared bathroom.
There is no excuse for their behavior and lack of consideration and respect for your home. Your home is not their personal flop-house to make a mess and leave it all laying around. Having a newborn baby doesn’t mean being lazy about caring for other areas in life, so any excuses they give you should be recognized for what they are. Lame excuses. It will go on for as long as you allow it to go on.
I would suggest that they be told to look for another place to live. Perhaps wherever they stayed for those two times they were gone, a friend, relative, family member – someone other than your house. When push comes to shove, these “kids” suddenly find another place to stay very quickly, so don’t allow feelings of guilt to hold you back from doing what you feel is necessary. You are a mother and grandma to be respected, not someone’s doormat to wipe their dirty feet on and treated like their personal maid service, chef and instant babysitter.
Hi and Deep Breath here…
I need help before I have a stroke or total meltdown. In a nutshell:
almost 21 yr. old son at college in 3rd year—a former straight A student—involved in adderall, alcohol, lying, won’t talk to us, immensely vulgar to the point of once allowing his friends to create a Facebook page where they made fun of me (I’m large-chested)
Husband: extremely angry w/ me for not working (I have lupus-like disease), hub almost 60 w/ severe job stress but is continuously verbally abusive, physically and emotionally non-existent for me, and has ‘secret’ conversations w/ son about me being a bad mom, etc.
My hub wants to be his friend, and bought him a car, although son cannot even pay insurance.
My family is mostly dead…I was the baby, and anyone who might be left has their own issues/ challenges, so nobody for me to go to. I have a last child left, a senior in hs who wants to be a doctor, very, very smart. I cannot walk out on her now.
Of course I love my son, but my heart is fried, trampled, splintered.
Do I hang in to get her into college (hub does nothing to help process but will foot some of bill), and how to handle the almost 21 yr. old?
Remember, I have a serious disease, can’t be off insurance…but
I’m tired of being insulted about my personality, my looks, my weight, my life, my voice, my ‘controllingness’, etc.
Seriously, if not for my Doberman and my girl, both who still need me, I’d be dead. This is worse than being dead.
Hi Susanna,
I am not familiar enough with Lupus to truly say that I understand the difficulties, complications and limitations involved there. I’ve heard of Lupus and at least understand that Lupus is a serious disease, but I don’t know much of anything else about it. But, you definitely need to be covered by insurance to deal with what you’re going through with the disease.
I’m unsure if the problem you are having is more about your husband enabling your son, or if your biggest problem is how your husband (and son) have been treating you with such disrespect. Your husband’s “severe job stress” is of course no excuse for how he’s treating you, and how he and your son have been treating you. It’s just wrong.
I certainly cannot tell you whether you should stay or go as that is a very personal decision each must make based on their own experiences. I would think that getting some counseling just for yourself, if not with your husband included, would help you to know which way you should go.
You might want to find out from an attorney what the legalities are with legal separation, keeping you on insurance etc, until you are ready to decide whether or not you feel the marriage can be saved. My thoughts and prayers are with you as you make these decisions for yourself.
thank you…separation sounds right for now.
thank you
I had never hear dof this and they had a Dr Phil program on and I realised this is me.
My 20 year old Daughter who left home 2 years ago has recently returned upsetting the whole house. She made our lives a misery when she was here before and we decided to pay her rent to bring some peace to the house,we stopped this after about 6 months when we realised she had plenty of money to pay her own expenses however she was always ringing for money for one reason or another.Since leaving she was diagnosed with Depression and now takes no responsibility for any of her actions blaming depression for everything.She has also manged to herself in a huge amount of debt and has come home to save however she seems to be spending more than she is saving.
I still have 2 other daughters at home and she spends the whole time picking at how we are parenting them.
I have already stopped the money side of things, and am now insisting she starts paying what she owes us back.
I would appreciate any advice about how to take the babysteps I need to unenable her
Hi Michelle,
I’m not sure I understand what you mean by “baby steps” in your desire to stop enabling your daughter. If you have read all the articles here about helping or enabling, plus all the comments and questions from parents, taking small baby steps won’t get you very far I’m afraid.
Your daughter’s debt is her choice and responsibility, not yours. Of course she’s spending more than she’s saving, or paying off debt with. That’s what all these enabled “kids” do. Grown adult children should not be living with their parents, but need to be living in their own home (apartment, house, mobile home, whatever) and paying their own way through life.
She needs to be held accountable and responsible for her own choices, financially and otherwise, so she needs to move out of your house and into her own place pronto. Dealing with her own debt and bills, on her own. Give her a deadline date of when she needs to be out of your house and stick to it. Take some time to carefully read the other articles and comments/questions from parents sharing their personal struggles with enabling, and you’ll know exactly what needs to be done. Good luck!
My marriage is over due to my adult son. He has been into drugs, gambling and stealing money from his employer to fund his habits. My father paid his bills for 2 years as he did not work. My husband and I (by my insistance) have bailed him out numerous times and my husband finally said enough, this will never change and walked out the door. Can I say I blame him? My adult son has cost me the love of my life. Had been married 16 1/2 years. I have to be the biggest enabler that ever lived.
Cindy,
I’m so sorry that this has cost you your marriage. This is something many couples are struggling with – one parent being an enabler and the other wanting/needing it to stop. Bailing out kids from their self-imposed problems and debt is never the best solution. Is there any way at all that you and your husband can work this out? Can you perhaps talk with your husband and explain you’ve been doing some research about enabling children and realized you need to make some changes? I really hope that your marriage is not over and that it can be saved.
Hey everybody,
I hope you all had a great Easter weekend and enjoyed yourselves with family. I thought I’d pop in for a second and let you all know I’ve finally written my article about How to Kick Grown Adult Children Out of the House. It’s a detailed plan on how to do it, in phases if you prefer, but an effective method to give them the boot and bring some peace and harmony to your home and marriages. Feel free to leave your comments or questions on the article as you wish. Here’s the link for the article:
http://www.tellinitlikeitis.net/2010/03/boomerang-kids-how-to-kick-grown-adult-children-out-of-the-house.html
I would like a bit of advice. My mother-in-law is a complete enabler. It was a miracle my husband and I got out of that vicious circle of control. Now, ten years later she has moved close by and brought her 28 year old son and his 20 year old girlfriend. I try to stay out of their business but she wants a relationship with her grandchildren. A few weeks ago, her son and his girlfriend stole her car and $10,000. They are addicted to heroin. I spoke to her in love and just gave the advice that she needs to report the car before they kill someone. She did and they were both put in jail. Then…she bailed them out and told me this whole story of how they let him out. It is a lie because you can check anyones status right on the computer. She does that a lot as well. I did the Matthew 18 things and confronted her in love that she was tying Gods hands and that she should really let him grow up but it must be that if she didn’t have control over them, she would be alone. Needless to say, she did not listen to my advice.
On sunday we invited her to church and then brunch for mothers day. She brought them and I thought that maybe God’s word could be given but at brunch I hear them talking about the food she bought for them and she will take the girlfriend for shoes and I was just in shock. Why would they grow up when they can just steal from her and then go right back to living in her home. They don’t work but they will clean for her to shut her up once in a while. I do not want my children around them. I love them but I do not want to enable an enabler. My children are 9, 5, 2, and one on the way. I know that in love I need to be clear with my mother-in-law and my husband and I are united in this area. I am just not sure which boundaries are the clearest. I want to let her know that I do not agree with them living there because I truly feel she is killing them but at the same time it is not my business and so I need to focus on the part that deals with me… my children. I was thinking that the appropriate boundary would be that my children will not be at her house while they live with her. Is that enough or should we completely back away from them for a while? Oh one more thing, she has issues so we don’t really feel comfortable with her at our house, especially because my father-in-law lives with us and they are a whole other issue.
Like I said she is very codependent and tries to set up time with the kids every weekend. No offense but I work all week and I want to spend time with my kids on the weekend. Sometimes I think she tries to be helpful and then sometimes it feels like she is trying to control us again. Since I gave my life to the Lord, he has really been teaching me and the boundaries have really improved but there is still much work to be done.
Since this has all occured, she asks about the kids and I have said no thank you because my husband and I are trying to set a clear appropriate boundary that we can stick to and that is not in anger but in the best interest of our children. I just wanted some opinions because it is always good to hear some opinions from people outside of the situation.
Thank you so much
Hi Jenn,
Where is your husband in all this? What does he say to his mother about the problems you’re pointing out here? I definitely believe in setting clear boundaries as married couples, agreeing to the boundaries you two have decided together, and both of you ensuring they’re adhered to.
A couple of things come to mind. One, as much as you would like to see your MIL realize she’s enabling her son and his girlfriend and not really helping them at all, a big problem is the fact that it’s not happening in your house. She’s moved close by, but she/they are not living in your house, thus creating havoc of all kinds. Truthfully, you don’t have any say at all in what goes on in someone else’s home. Unless and until what goes on in another person’s home affects you, your husband or children directly.
If that is happening, then you and your husband would of course have the right and responsibility to make perfectly clear (respectfully of course) whether or not you or your kids will spend any time at their house, or them spend any time at your house. It would be best if your husband were the one who speaks to his own mother about the boundaries you two have agreed to, since it is his mother. The Daughter-in-law/mother-in-law relationship could be irreparably damaged if you are the primary one doing the talking and voicing the boundaries, especially if your husband isn’t even there.
The fact that you and your husband are a united front is excellent. It is really up to you and your husband to discuss any possible ideas, options, suggestions or ways to implement various “rules” and/or boundaries you two see fit. If you both agree that you don’t want your kids over at their grandmother’s house for whatever reasons, then decide between yourselves whether or not it will be beneficial to lay it all out for her in detail, or if declining offers to babysit etc is enough. Perhaps she will come to you two and ask why the kids haven’t been allowed to come over – then you two can discuss the matter with her (with her son doing the majority of the talking), and see how she responds. It is really best that your husband do the talking, while you are there as his wife and support and mother of his children. Tread verrry carefully any time you feel like speaking up and telling your MIL how you feel about what she’s been doing. It is her house after all. It would be a completely different matter if your MIL came to live with you and your husband and kids, plus bringing the brother and girlfriend. Entirely different scenarios, and if you’re not realllly careful, you may find yourself in a position of being told in a very unkind voice that what goes on in her home is an M.Y.O.B (mind your own business) situation.
Lin,
Thank you so much for your response. My mil and I have had issues in the past when we did all live together and I agree that I do not want to do the talking. My children being there do pose a threat because of the behavior my son is exposed to. When we were at the brunch, he was pretending the french fry was a cigarette (brother in law and girlfriend smoke) and was acting out like he never has before. My children have also informed me of the yelling and screaming that go on over there and the fact that my mil will send the children up to the room to get them (bil & girlfriend) out of bed. I do not want my children used as pawns and I do not want them influenced by my bil not to mention that there is most likely drugs in the house.
I guess I needed that confirmation to but out of their stuff and just focus on my children and my home.
As for my husband, he can’t stand the situation and he is ready to do the talking. I just wanted some opinions before we proceeded.
Thank you so much,
Jenn
Hi Jenn!
Wondered if you, your kids, husband and MIL could meet at a park to have some fun time visiting without the others. Or…walk through the zoo (if you have one nearby), shore/beach, or children’s museum where interaction by kids is encouraged. Possibly, your BIL and his girlfriend wouldn’t find this exciting enough for them and would stay away giving the rest of you time to bond in a different way for a change. Maybe your husband and his mother could even have that talk in a peaceful and non-confrontational setting.
Concentrating on the children and the fun they would have would be a nice diversion for you all and may give your MIL insight into how it should be with family.
Good luck no matter what you do.
Betty,
Thanks for your suggestions. I think that may work although I do not want us to have the conversation in front of the kids. I am sure we will find some way to do this and since my husband has said he will do the talking, I feel a lot more relief in that area.
Jenn
Thanks, Jenn!
I would hope that if you are able to go to a neutral place, you could take the kids somewhere to play or just have some time with each other which would leave your husband and his mother alone to walk and talk. That way, nothing would have to be said in front of the children.
I am a big believer in not airing grievances in front of children. I had some bad experiences with my ex so I know the harm it can do to kids.
Betty,
I agree wholeheartedly with that. That is part of the reason I do not want my children at her house in the first place. She screams at her son in front of my kids and they are not exposed to that type of behavior in our home. It is very disturbing. And in the past when I have tried to place boundaries like this, she lied to me and said they would not be in the home only to find out they came home and the cops were there. That was about two years ago but things like that stick with me when I contemplate our boundaries with my mil. I told my husband that great suggestions by you and Lin and he knows he needs to confront the issue. At the same time, we haven’t spoken to her since mothers day. Ususally she calls us constantly but I guess now that she has some drama keeping her busy, she is not as interested in my kids as she was when they (bil & girlfriend) were in jail.
Thank you again for your help
Jenn
My husband’s two sons (oldest and youngest) live in an apartment he co-signed for. The oldest is mentally ill and receives SS/disability. The youngest has never worked for more than a few months at a time (didn’t even graduate, took the GED way out after less than 9th grade education). At the time he co-signed (rather, put it in his name alone because they had no credit) the youngest was working at a good job with a company car and the oldest was to contribute a portion of his monthly SS. We would help if they fell short any month. Shortly after signing the lease the youngest boy quit his job (emotional upset “required” him to), got involved in criminal activity and arrested (husband bailed him out, of course), and neither has contributed one dime to the expenses. So we are now paying $1000 a month apartment rent, electric bill, CABLE bill (which I am 100% opposed to but my husband signed them up for because “they had nothing to do”), and buy all of their food. Their expenses cost us over $2000 each month. They only call him when they need something; otherwise they don’t give a rat’s a$$ about him and never have. The lease ends in August but I am at my wit’s end because the youngest is laying a guilt trip on my husband that it’s all his fault, blah blah blah. Of course he has not worked since he lost his job, so he’s done nothing in almost a year except sit around the apartment we pay for eating the food we pay for – oh, and of course he moved his girlfriend in too and she doesn’t work either and we have to provide enough food for all three of them. I am afraid I am going to kill one of them before August gets here. Thanks for listening.
Jean, what a sad situation you describe. But, unfortunately, very common these days. The guilt trips “kids” put on parents well after reaching adulthood is heartbreaking, to say the least. Unfortunately, these kids know the parents well enough to know what “buttons to push” to get their way, and the kids don’t think about or care what damage they’re doing to themselves or the parents in particular. The only way to stop this is for your husband to stand up and realize the harm and damage being done by continuing this route, and say No More Money and No More “help”.
Perhaps sharing with your husband these articles on Enabling adult children and the self-reflective questions of whether he is or isn’t an enabler will get him to at least begin questioning his reasons and motivations for doing this, and just might get him to realize that he IS enabling his sons and causing great harm to both kids, you personally, him personally and your marriage relationship financially and otherwise. Hopefully before you two personally find yourselves in financial ruin and find your own retirement and future well-being in jeopardy. Good luck Jean; I really hope your husband wakes up and realizes the damage he’s doing and put a stop to it immediately.
My son is 24. He moved away when he was 18 without anyone telling him to, just because he hated rules and structure and wanted to have fun. He got into a lot of trouble.
It seemed like things were getting better for him, but he started drinking a lot. He met a woman 7 years older than him who had a small home several hours away from us, and a decent job. He moved in with her. She later was laid off from her work and got a doctor to sign a statement that said she cannot work due to a bad knee, so she could get on welfare.Then they planned to start trying to have a baby of their own ( she had another child from a previous relationship but did not have custody).
My wife and I have adopted a number of older children from orphanges where they would have ended up living on the streets. We taught them very clearly how to be responsible and to focus also on helping others. My son asked me what I thought of their decision to try to have a baby. Of course I was appalled; they had no stable income, he was abusive and an alcoholic- it was the same kind of situation that led to our own children being institutionalized in the first place…so my wife and I were against it. I tried to get him to think of the baby, and would he like to be that baby? But he wanted what he wanted. They had the baby. Always asking for money, but my son has a well paying job. He doesn’t want to share his money or pay for his baby’s needs. Recently he decided to dump this girlfriend and move in with someone else, so now she has called me desperate for money. Her mom has called me saying she is having a hard time paying for everything (for this former girlfriend).
This woman brought a baby into the world with full knowing that it was the worst kind of world to bring a precious life into. I love babies like crazy, but they’re not pets. They’re people. She is a beautiful woman, intelligent, a great conversationalist…she says she can’t work, but she takes long walks around the lake and is very busy and active. I can’t believe that there are no jobs she could do. She has a new car, smokes a lot. She’s called several times desperate for money. I don’t plan on being the bank. It looks like her mother has been a major enabler, paying her rent and other stuff.
I wouldn’t even know her if it weren’t for my son’s involvement. She hasn’t been communicative with us, except during this time to tell us she really needs money- and if not for her, then for the baby.Before that she never expressed a thank you for gifts or ever so much as returned an e-mail. As much as I want to protect and help the baby, I don’t want to become the never ending ATM machine and I feel that taking away the pain of a person’s horrible choices strips them of any ability to learn. I feel manipulated in a major way and I despise it. Especially since we worked through every situation in life the hard way, with no hand-outs.
My hardest thing is knowing what to say. I don’t want to weenie-out and just not ever take her calls again, but I also am too nice and have a very hard time saying what I really want to in person or on the phone.
Aaron, good for you for being strong and not being willing to “be the bank” for your son or his girlfriend. Good for you! The two of them made choices that they are responsible for, not you. Choices bring consequences, sometimes good ones and sometimes bad ones, but they’re still natural consequences for choices made.
Don’t bankroll their bad choices. If you have difficulty voicing how you feel over the phone or in person, consider sending her an email and explain your thoughts and feelings, which allows you to edit the text until you are content with the message you wish to provide. Then click Send. If she doesn’t reply to emails, all the better! ha!
You could suggest that she call an attorney to fight for child support from your son, or suggest she call the local child support division for unpaid child support problems, but that she’s wasting her time harassing you for money. Most likely she’ll say or imply that she can’t afford an attorney to fight for child support. That’s when your “come back” is to suggest she find a pro-bono/volunteer attorney that deals with family law and child support etc. There are many pro bono lawyers/volunteer lawyers, but it means she has to do the foot work to find them.
There are government problems, food banks, churches etc that offer help of food and even payment of utility bills (but not to be abused of course). If there is TRUE NEED, there are agencies and organizations that offer such needed help, but don’t be surprised to hear some long sad song about how it’s too hard to do this or that, or too hard to be approved for such help etc. Whine, Whine, Whine.
There is nothing wrong with choosing to not answer her calls each and every time. You obviously know what those phone calls are intended to do. Don’t fall for it, it’s a con. Stay strong, you’re doing great!
oops, I meant “there are government programs” not “government problems”.
Thank you, Lin. that was very encouraging. “Don’t bankroll their bad choices” is exactly what I have been feeling, but was unable to put words to it. I have peace about this now.
Jean, I sure hope your husband will listen to you! Mine still doesn’t want to fully admit he and his ex are doing harm to their sons by supporting them (since 1999). Don’t fall for anything said about working when a job is found, either, to get you off your son’s back if he tries that one! It never happens! Just another ploy to keep the support coming in. If your husband doesn’t stop, you will be in my shoes for many more years. (Sons are 48 and almost 40!!!) It just doesn’t stop once the guilt trip takes hold. These are lifers in the game of help me!!
Aaron, you are in a very tough situation. If you don’t help, you may not get to see your grandchild. Then again, if you DO help, you STILL may not get to know your grandchild. So awkward!
In the situation I am in with my daughter, I get the name and address of the doctor or pharmacy and send a check only to the person providing services to her. It isn’t much because I’ve had to say no often (my small income doesn’t go far so I can’t be the bank of mom and dad for her). However, it does get her meds if she needs them badly. She is disabled and has a low income so I try to ONLY help with serious problems that are within my budget. The pleas for help have diminished greatly so it has helped. She has to figure it out for herself.
Good luck with your situation!
Thank you, Betty. That sounds like an accountable way to help.
Thank you, everyone, for these posts. I feel like I am not alone anymore. You are all in my heart and prayers. There are true needs. My wife and I support several orphanages where the kids are handicapped and they have no option of employment. There are also a lot of honest, hard-working people who are out of work right now, who are making an effort to find work and struggling to pay bills. There are real needs, and then there are the users who feel entitled and do not want to pitch in for their own good. Just to hear that it’s ok to decide- to choose who I say yes to and no to, is so refreshing. It’s OK. And that if it looks like a con and feels like a con, then it’s probably some kind of con….to read about other peoples’ experiences helps me put it in perspective. I stayed up til 2AM reading this!!! Thank you!!!!
Reading all the comments and realizing how I escaped a trap with a man I was engaged to (he is 68 and I will be 70 this year). He is Hispanic and feels extreme guilt over his kids. His late wife, one of my best friends passed away in 2008. She would not tolerate some of her kids shenanigans. One of his sons was murdered in 2009 outside his home in California. His daughter abandoned three young girls into foster care and then subsequent (fortunate adoption) and the maternal grandparents (my “fiance”) were going to lose grandparenting rights and went to court and were allowed. Before my friend died in 2008, she had evicted their almost 40 year old son and he left for California after leaving a financial and other messes behind for the parents to face. Also my friend, although devastated by the loss of contact with her daughter, would not have tolerated the daughter’s excuses. The daughter spent time in prison as well and now,has re-entered her father’s life because she knows he is soft on her. Problem is, the adoptive parents of his grandkids is unaware of the daughter’s re-emergence on the scene. The grandkids have anger issues about the abandonment. I think the daughter put the kabosh on his and my relationship because she wants to milk the Daddy of finances and he is stupid enough to go for it. I tried to break off with him and remain friends and did all sorts of things to turn him off, including wearing unflattering dental devices for pictures and then sending to him.
When he would not, I thought perhaps we were okay and the other stuff could be addressed. He broke off with me suddenly on his birthday which saddened me but I know I escaped a constant difficulty with his kids. But how many chances at romance does a seventy year old get? I am prepared to be alone but I think he needs a strong wakeup call.
Thanks for reading. Noreen
Hi Noreen,
I’m so sorry about the loss of your dear friend. She was obviously a very strong woman who wouldn’t put up with the nonsense the kids were pulling on her/them. Not being in this relationship with this man may very well have saved you years of regret, heartache and financial ruin.
It’s sad, I know, but the wakeup call he may need to get him to stop enabling his grown child truly requires the inner light to go off and nearly knock a person off their chair. The full realization is often emotionally painful for parents, and at his age now, I’m sorry to say that the chances that he’ll wake up during his life time are rather low.
Feelings of guilt is a powerful influence on parents, and it’s unfortunate that the guilt is often played upon by grown kids to intentionally manipulate parents into giving more and more money. “People pleaser” parents will continue feeling guilty towards their grown kids until the parents realize the effect it’s having on them mentally, emotionally, financially etc.
Noreen, you have very likely saved yourself from extreme relationship problems with this guy and his kids. Whew! Romance and relationships, even for those in advanced years, is supposed to be about love, affection, mutual respect, communication, etc etc. From the way his kids are walking all over him, it doesn’t appear as though the values are mutual, and you’d be on the “short end of the stick” for sure.
Hold your head up high and spend time with people who you enjoy their companionship, friendship, respect and adoration. You just never know where you might find a sweet, wonderful man that you can share all the good stuff with, free of the painful drama and struggles.
Thank you so much for your supportive and informative response to my information. I do feel, as you said, as if I have escaped a bitter time with him. Another aside when I spoke to him during the relationship, he wanted me to pare down my belongings which I have already done a great deal and now I am at the point where I want to keep what I have and I told him so. I also told him I would either drive my old car to Chicago and then he had a 2005 vehicle garaged which he wanted to sell or give his granddaughter. I would have paid him for the car and told him to save it for me and his reply was “I’ll buy you a beater.” Now that may have sufficed, but he was driving a new Caddy, which meant, to me, that he cared so much less for my safety and comfort and it let me know immediately where I stood on the totem pole, L A S T!
Actually, I have stopped seeking any type of romantic connection and am quite satisfied with my own company. At least I know what to expect from myself.
I have a few friends, but most are gone. That is why I am attending school. I am studying music theory. I have been a music professional all my life but I wanted to become more accomplished in writing and playing piano to accompany myself.
Thanks again,
Noreen
Thanks, Lin,
I agree and also thanks Betty. I am over it but it still ticks me off that I wasted one minute with this wuss. He sounded very unlike the man I knew. Also said something that made me rather angry about how he thought he got a “signal” from me when I visited his wife and him in 2002. I quickly responded to that and told him that I never thought of him as anything but my friend’s husband and a friend to me. That shut him up fast. Some men have such a wrong ego trip going.
Noreen
Aaron,
I think you are a very intelligent, caring person and are having proper reactions to your son and the woman. It is sad, but these younger generations believe we owe them everything. They are never there for their senior parents and take, take, take. I know that not all kids are like that, but it seems that as time goes on, I hear more stories like this.
I had two children, one extremely gifted and bright who passed away at age 17, and the other autistic, whom I supported and helped until she was 24 and decided she wanted to live on her own after I helped her get her SSI. She then expected me to support her and I told her that if she lived with me I could but could not support two households, period. She has since been angry with me and off and on, now off the relationship. It is sad because the one who passed away was the best daughter and very loving and I miss her companionship more now than ever. But I am okay. I have no relationship with the other one by her choice, but I am somewhat grateful since she is so high maintenance, I don’t want to deal with it. I am back in school at my age and trying to improve chances of employment. My husband passed away when I turned 23 so I raised my kids by myself. I had a brief marriage to an abusive man and split from him in 1967. This is too long but that is what my history is, somewhat.
Hi, Noreen!
Lin has given you some excellent advice! She is very knowledgable and caring!
I am sorry about what you have been going through, also. It’s so difficult when you feel so alone, but you are doing some very good things for yourself.
My two cents is that with your musical background, you might check with senior centers where people gather to have fun and socialize to see if they would like someone with your talent to play for them at events and dances. (You just might find a cute guy who wants to “make music”, too.) Well, you just never know what will happen when you meet new people! Anyway, good luck and keep on going with your classes!
Betty and Noreen, I think Betty musta been reading my mind. I was thinking the very same thing, giving others the opportunity to hear your musical talents will bring them pleasure and you too!
Hi Betty and Lin,
Thanks for the input. I am letting God direct me on this music thing. I do have a pianist I recorded with on a CD and he is my age. We are rehearsing music for performance so that may well happen.
Noreen
To everyone. When I read comments on various websites, I realize that there are many people out there who have great compassion for others and are helping in any way they can even through these hard times. It is gratifying to see that we are able to support each other no matter what is happening in our own lives.
There is so much love! Thank you so much!
Betty, that’s what it’s all about in the world. Caring and compassion for others, no matter what the problems or experiences.
Thanks, Lin, for giving us this and other forums to find our “sisters and brothers” in time of need and your insight into how you can help us and how we can help each other.
Have a great week!!
Hi Lin,
Thought I would update you on our son. To recap, he borrowed over 20k from us a while ago. We threw his finances back at him and told him we were done with him financially. He was dragging out his payments and treating us very poorly.
This year he managed to get 1/3 of an inheritance that he did not deserve from a great grandmother no less. She deliberately gave my daughter and our son it to snub the other generations. Our youngest got 6k and our other too got over 100k. Ridiculous. Our son recieved 45klast week and will get the rest within 2 years. We were unaware he was going to get so much and basically told him that our will would be rewritten with his loan plus interest deducted. He was happy to have that off his plate.
He buys a computer, laptop and a HORSE TRAILER for his girlfriend who has sucked him dry and created his past enormous debt. He has been paying board on her horse for 4 years. Now he needs a truck to pull the trailer. He actually had the nerve to ask for a co sign on the loan. He said he would give us the money upfront and the payment book so he could build credit in order to buy a house down the line. I at first thought it was a no brainer then realized he would be demanding the money back when he needed it before the loan was paid off. I finally said no. He abruptly hung up the phone. We know where we stand. I have finally figured his game out. We will never be there when his money runs out (and it will)and have honestly learned a lesson. Amazing that he could recieve so much money and never consider paying his debt to his parents. Always a taker. I hope others are learnig from these post. Wake up and say NO!!!!!!!!!
Debbie,
It’s incredibly sad for parents to have to come the realization of what their “kids” are doing, and what they’re attitude is about “help” from parents. It’s supposedly “owed” to children, from their viewpoint, and these “children” feel no compulsion or responsibility to pay their parents back any monies at all. The so-called “contracts” that parents and their kids compose and sign are nothing but a piece of wasted paper in most cases. The kids think to themselves, “what are they gonna do, sue me to get the money back?”
I’m so sorry that the reality of your situation with your son has turned out this way, but it’s all too common with grown adult children. Like you said, just say NO and mean it and stick to it, no matter how much the kids whine, complain, beg, promise etc etc. The end result, when all is said and done, is the parents are left with the enormous bills and debt – and the kids go on with their lives as if it’s no big deal.
Glad you made the break, Debbie. Congratulations! I wish others would learn from your experience. Not so in my family! Still doing the same things and actually, doing more enabling.
Takers never change. They will resort to lies and harrassment to get what they want. They will whine and cry unfair while they are not paying their way in society. I have learned not to say much and ignore both the taker(s) and the enablers! In the end, they will all have to face some truths in life.
Reading the posts here has been very helpful. I am a horrible enabler. Son is 25 and daughter is 21. Where do I begin??? My son is a recovering alcoholic. Hasn’t had a drink for 2 years now, but I suspect he now smokes pot. He has had several jobs over the last 4 years, most of which only last for a few months. Some have been layoffs, so not his fault there. Others have been missing too much time, always late, etc… I have always had a very hard time not giving in when he asks for help. Money for gas because he won’t be able to keep his job if he can’t get there, money for utilities because the electricity was shut off, no food in the house, can’t make my car payment because my hours were cut this week, etc… Always something going on. He needed a new truck 6 months ago for work and, of course, couldn’t buy it on his own, so I co-signed. (Big mistake). Now he’s unemployed, and I am stuck making payments. And, to make things worse, he has a baby. Last night the phone call was to let me know that he had to spend his last dime baby-proofing the house (even though the baby doesn’t even crawl yet), and it will be over 2 weeks before unemployment kicks in. (He’ll be asking for more money soon to buy the baby formula, etc.) He and the baby’s mother have split and are sharing joint custody with no child support obligation. I’m soooo stupid. He lies his way through anything. I also recently found out that he used my credit card to buy things he wanted without my knowledge or consent. I made the stupid mistake of letting him use my card for gas one time, and then he must have written the numbers down. How surprised I was when my billing statement came in!!! When I confronted him with this, he first tried to lie about it, but then his response was “I’m sorry… I’ll pay you back.” When he called me last night and said he was broke, I told him no, and it has been bugging me ever since. Constantly looking at my cell phone to see if he has called or sent a text. Nothing. I’m sure he’s upset with me, but he’ll get over it I guess. After reading the posts on this site, it has made me FINALLY realize that I have to stop this now. Now, let’s get on to my daughter… She’s a single parent living at home with us and her 18 month old that we have helped raise since birth. We’re quite attached to the baby. She receives no support from the baby’s father whatsoever. My daughter works and is much more responsible with money than her brother; however, the problem is every weekend, she goes out and leaves the baby with us. Every now and then wouldn’t be a problem, but it is usually every weekend, and then she doesn’t come home until the next morning and then sleeps most of the day while we take care of the baby again. I work a full time job and the weekends are the only time I have to take care of my things, which include visiting my elderly mother with dementia. Now, if my husband and I try to talk to her about this, she gets very upset, yells, is very disrespectful, and then she will just take the baby somewhere else so she can have “her” time. This, too, has to stop, but we are torn with not wanting to lose our granddaughter that we are so very attached to. Sounds like a pretty good mess doesn’t it??? Last night was a pretty tough night for me…. telling my Son no, and then telling my daughter to move out.
Hi Kris,
Telling your son no had to have been hard for you. It’s hard for any parent to say no, especially when the “kids” can be so convincing that they really do need the “help”. Over and over and over again.
When children, grown or not, get involved with drugs, alcohol, criminal activity etc, parents often feel emotionally and mentally stressed and worry about what will happen to their child if the parents don’t rescue them. Natural consequences of bad choices is what happens, and having to experience these and have to come to the full realization of what they’ve done to themselves and their own life by their personal choices, is the best Help they can be given. Many of these kids actually learn to Help themselves, begin to make better choices for themselves and learn what it means to be an adult and start acting like a responsible adult.
A few days ago, I posted an article about parents who are dealing with their adult children’s problems including drugs, alcohol, mental illness, psychological problems etc. The article is called “Letting Go of Our Grown Adult Children, When What we Do is Never Enough”, and it includes information from a free online book from an author who went through so much with her adult children that she decided to write a book to help other parents who are dealing with the same or similar situations with their own children. Here’s the link to that article so you and other parents here can read it and also have access to read the free book.
http://www.tellinitlikeitis.net/2010/07/letting-go-of-our-grown-adult-children-when-what-we-do-is-never-enough.html
I found this site 5 nights ago when my 19 yr old daughter moved out after I gave her an ultimatum. I found drugs in her room and an empty bottle of one of my prescriptions. To make a long story short this site and all of your posts have saved my life. Thank you so much. I will write more when I get this computer fixed. The letter “e” keeps sticking. I have given so much for so long and I have been a fool. It’s painful and embarrassing to have to face up to the fact that your own child is a selfish, cold person. She came home today while I was out and took a “few things”. Some of it was mine. I know I will have to change the locks. I am so hurt and so angry. I had no idea there were so many of us in similar situations. I bookmarked this page.
Karen, sorry for the delay in responding. I’ve been outta pocket for a couple days. Welcome to the site and I’m glad the information about helping vs enabling is helping you. It’s hard for parents to come the realization that their “help” really hasn’t been help after all. The hurt, anger etc is normal and natural given what you’ve been through. Parents have to step back and allow their grown children to experience the natural consequences that come with making adult choices, for the good or for the bad. Continuously helping, giving and giving and giving, rescuing, bailing kids out of jail etc etc does not help matters, and the full-on impact on parents emotionally can be devastating, to say the least. If you haven’t already, take some time to read the articles about helping and enabling, and let me/us know if you have any questions or would like advice or suggestions of some kind.
I wanted to also echo Karen’s thoughts in saying that this site also saved me from myself. Its wake up call in realizing that we are not alone and to stop blaming ourselves. Many kids today lack work ethics, independance and above all respect. I stand taller and have far more respect for myself since joining this site. I always make a point to share it with friends experiencing the same issues.
A quick update on my son. He came over for his birth certificate this week. He said he was going to Octoberfest in Germany. He finally gets some money and puts it towards a trip!!! Entitled!!NOT!!! I can only hope that the other two bonds are held back until he is 35 like my grandmother intended. She read him like a book but he convinced the executor to give some to him early. What a waste!
Thank you Lin for being there for all of us and for tell it like it is!!!!!!!!
Thank you Debbie! That is very kind of you to say. I appreciate very much the sharing of my site to your friends etc. I receive some of the sweetest emails from visitors and readers with the nicest feedback on my topics, as well as my ‘tell it like it is’ writing style. Some people have difficulty with my style of writing but there’s lots of other sites out there that suggest and recommend some of what I do in a ‘fluffy, soft’ way. Definitely not my style.
I have two sons, 23 & 24, from a previous marriage. They are both out on their own and I’m pretty sure I’m enabling them and worry myself sick over them. The oldest has a great job and has been very consistant about work ever since he’s been 16 (only had two jobs). The problem is, he can’t hold on to his money for more than 5 minutes. He got himself into a mess with credit cards and loans, and while I didn’t bail him out, I took over the management of his money. He basically hands his paycheck over to me, I pay his bills, and then he blows the rest. I have him debt free again and know I should turn this all back over to him but I know he’ll just recreate the mess. My youngest is currently deployed overseas so I pretty much have to take care of his stuff. He’s better at dealing with it than his brother is, but he still doesn’t think paying his bills is a priority. Fortunately the Military is his 2nd mother and takes pretty good care of him. So…is managing their money for them enabling them if I’m not giving them money?
Hi Beej,
You have the best intentions in mind, that being helping to get your son out of debt from credit cards and loans. However, the problem I see and the question I have for you to carefully consider is, How is your grown child(ren) going to learn how to be an adult managing their own money and bills if you do it for them? How will your grown kids learn how to manage their own money, make wise adult decisions about spending money and saving money, if it’s all being taken care of you the mom?
What has your son learned about money management throughout the time you have been controlling and managing his money and paying his bills with his paycheck? Has he learned anything about controlling impulses to buy stuff?, learning how to save money and WHY saving money is important and necessary? What your son does with his paycheck is a choice – good or bad, but it’s still his choice to make. He’s chronologically an adult, but isn’t/hasn’t taken on the responsibility and obligations that go with being an adult. Or at least a Responsible adult. How will your son learn that paying bills and being smart with his own money is not only a priority but is a serious adult responsibility he needs to learn and implement in his own life?
Managing his money for him and getting him out of debt makes you feel better. But it’s not about you, the parent. In the long run, how has it changed anything for him personally? Once you relinquish the responsibility back to him (which I feel you should do) for paying his own bills and managing his own money, will he go back into debt and being irresponsible financially? Maybe, likely, probably. Or not. It’s all his choice and all his responsibility and all his doing, to himself. Your son(s) will never learn how to be a responsible adult, making ends meet according to their income, saving money, staying out of debt, paying their own bills and ON TIME….Unless and until parents step back and allow their grown kids to choose for themselves what they’re going to do, how they’re going to do it financially and responsibly, and deal with any consequences brought on by their personal choices – these “kids” won’t learn anything and nothing will improve or change for the better.
ETA: Oops, I had to go back in and edit the last sentence above because there wasn’t supposed to be a paragraph break where the “…..” is shown. The whole (long) sentence was supposed to continue without a period or paragraph break and was not intended to imply or say that Beej’s sons will never learn how to be responsible yadda yadda yadda. Shoulda proofread one more time.
“Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today. Teach a man to fish, and you have fed him for a lifetime.”— Author unknown
I left a question at the top of this page; What to do with an adult child 38 years old? I believe I put the question in the wrong place on this page. I sure could use some advice if you could? It is so difficult because of the grandchildren. I just want to do what’s right, I’m so afraid it will hurt my grandchildren, and put an end to the enabling behavior that I have. Pm Tennessee or Pennie
Hi Pennie,
Give me a minute to find your comment so I can respond. They’re hard to find unless left at the bottom because there are so many.
Pennie, I just found this comment from you that was apparently left on another related article:
We have an adult daughter 38 years old. In the past we have loaned her money for a truck & helped her buy a home in Florida. She has always worked and been responsible in the past. But since she met and recently married her husband, she has treated us differently. We purchased a home and she was to eventually buy the home from us. She was making regular payments but then she started making partial payments and then when her husband went back to school, she would pay us every 6 months to 8 months in arrears. Now she told us she would pay us in August and then denied saying that when her husband decided not to go to school anymore. She has paid no rent for this year at all. We always have called the home her home because we figured someday she would buy the home. I gave her 2,000. to finish the walls in the basement for the grandsons to have their own rooms. Now she and her husband say that they don’t owe us any rent because they did this work. I got angry and told her she needed to move out. No response from her but cussing me out. I finally sent her an eviction notice about one and a half months ago. She called me and said she was sending it back to me. I received it back today unopened.This year I put the house for sale with a realtor for 6 months. The realtor said no one will buy it with 4 dogs in the house and in the condition it is in. I recently heard from my grandson that they have no water and haven’t had any water for some time. My daughter refuses to work and her husband only works part time as a handyman. Our four grandchildren live in the house with them. It’s a difficult situation for my husband and me to be in. But financially we need to sell the house. Our money is invested in the house and they aren’t paying any rent or taking care of the house. Has anyone been in this position? I could really use some input, moral support, suggestions, please.
Pennie, I can definitely understand the problems and concerns you and your husband have about these problems, but it’s quite clear that your daughter and son-in-law are trying to keep you in a choke-hold over this house. Whether or not the house really is or isn’t without water may not be the truth, but something either of the parents set the child up to tell you to put you off.
The best I can tell you, considering your daughter and husband’s attitudes, is to contact a lawyer that handles evictions and related matters. I am not an attorney, but clearly you need one to protect your interests and that of your grandchildren. It’s a tough spot to be in, that’s for sure, but you and your husband should absolutely know all of your rights under the law and receive legal advice from a skilled, experienced attorney. The enabling has to stop, for sure, and do whatever the lawyer recommends in order to protect your investment. Sorry I couldn’t be of more help, but I don’t want to advise you along such legal lines.
My son is 20 years old and still living at home with no job. He stays up all night and sleeps all day instead of looking for a job.
He has always been a difficult child since his dad and I divorced when he was 4 years old. The guilt of this divorce and what I believe to be the catalyst of his problems eats away at me.
When he started kindergarten he was always in trouble at school, then diagnosed with ADHD (I do not believe he was ADHD). My second husband (his step-father, a wonderful husband and father who took my son and daughter and called them his own) and I decided not to give him meds because we felt that he had to learn on his own to manage his problems instead of letting the meds do it for him. However, when things got too out of hand with the school calling me everyday with one problem or another, we tried Adderal, but not for long because it made him a zombie and we would rather have the problems than to see him medicated. It wasn’t normal.
At sixteen, after numerous suspensions from school, running away from home, etc. he and a friend decided to burglarize a couple of cars and was expelled from school. We enrolled him into a program call Youth Challenge Program which is run by the National Guard. He graduated from the program where he received hid GED. After graduation he came home to live with us and we told him he would have to either work or plan on furthering his education. None of this happened and he got into trouble again at 17, this time with drugs.
He then decided to join the Navy and we signed parental papers for him to join and off he went to boot camp. He completed boot camp and was stationed in Connecticut. When he came home for Christmas we gave him a car to drive back there. Long story short he totaled the car and went AWOL, then was discharged from the Navy. We told him he could not come back to live at home with us, so he went to live with his Dad which did not last long.
From there on he lived from friend to friend, sofa to sofa, never getting a job. He called us a year later and begged me to take him back home, promising to get a job and straighten out his life. We let him come back home and he attended Job Corp. to get training in construction, graduating in Sept. 2009. He came back home after this program and we told him the only way he could stay with us is if he got a job with a plan to move out on his own. Well, it is now Sept. 2010 and that has not happened. I will not get him a car, buy his cigarettes or give him money for anything. I do not do his laundry or clean his room. I gave him a deadline to either get a job by May of 2010 or move out but I didn’t follow through. Then I told him if he didn’t have a job by August 2010 (when his younger sister left for college) he would have to move out. Again, I couldn’t do it…..I am not strong and afraid of what will happen to him if I kick him out.
What do I do? My husband says he has to go but he lets him stay for me…..like I said he is wonderfully patient with me although he feels exactly as you do.
I know in my head that I am doing wrong by my son by allowing him to stay here, but my heart says different. I tried to get counseling but I quit because the counselor told me to kick him out and let him live under a bridge if that’s what it takes.
I don’t kick him out because of my own guilt about the divorce and his childhood of always being in trouble. I keep hoping that given enough time he will mature and see he is living his life wrong and do something to fix it.
My daughter, 19, is a wonderful person, in her first year of college, has always worked since 11th grade in high school and is extremely motivated. How can you have two children raised in the same manner/household turn out so drastically different?
So do I give him a 30 day notice?
Hi Tammy,
16 years or so of carrying “guilt” over your divorce from your son’s father, plus his childhood and teenage problems, has held you and your son hostage. How many more years are you willing to throw away in your own life and your son’s life because you choose to hang onto the feelings of guilt? 16 more years? 20 more years, when he’s in his 40′s and still living at home with you and your husband?
Your son knows you don’t mean it when you tell him he has to move out, so why would he even budge an inch to anything about finding a job and getting himself his own place and moving on with his adult life? He’s been taught by your not following through that he can do what he wants, when and how he wants to, because he knows there will be no real consequences. He’ll be rescued, and he knows it. Counselors have told you everything I could possibly tell you, but as you’ve said, the counselor didn’t tell you what you want to hear. I can’t either. I can only tell you the truth, even if it means hurting your feelings.
You are not helping your son become a responsible adult by allowing your own feelings of guilt to control your life, and his life. You say you’re not strong, and you’re afraid of what will happen to him if you kick him out. Yet, your daughter is out on her own and living an adult life of her own choosing. Is it even remotely possible that one reason why you are not doing what you know you need to do because when your son moves out and starts having no choice but to be an adult, you will be an empty nester and won’t know what to do with yourself? The “Kids” are all gone from the house, so what do you do now that it’s you and your husband all by yourselves?
You don’t buy his cigarettes for him, do his laundry etc. Good, you shouldn’t be doing those things. How is he able to get or have money to buy his own cigarettes if he’s not working? Who else……is enabling him? Where will he go, where will he live, how will he eat, etc etc? However he chooses. His life is exactly that, his life, his choices, his consequences, his decisions, his consequences.
Tough question for you. A rhetorical one, not one I’m asking that you answer here. What right do you have as a parent to hold your son back from his becoming an independent, self sufficient, responsible adult man in this world because you have difficulty and guilt letting go of the past? You have to learn to let go, and the sooner the better.
Tammy, You HAVE to see that your son leaves NOW. I know from experience that you may be putting your marriage at risk if you continue to feel “guilty” and let your son stay indefinitely! Your husband may be very supportive now, but please don’t continue to put him in the position of enabling your son, too. You will both want to have a life of your own soon. I’m at the end of my rope with my husband’s sons (and now his ex) so please be aware of the damage that can occur if it continues! I have been through it THIS time for eleven long years and I am sick of it. His sons have NEVER been completely independent and now they are 40 and 48 years old living with mom once again. Your son doesn’t have to grow up or be responsible for himself as long as you are supporting him. You aren’t teaching him anything positive, either.
It doesn’t work to give him move out dates because he knows you aren’t serious. Believe me, when he goes he’ll be fine. No one who manipulates as well as he does will end up under a bridge. He may, however, finally believe that you’re serious and will do what it takes to survive (even finding a job).
I’m sorry for coming in with such strong opinions, but I know how much harm enabling can do to the family as a whole.
My prayers go with you. Good luck.
Betty
Betty, thank you for your reply…..I need all the help I can get in this matter. Every time I think about the deadline for him I want to throw-up. It makes me physically ill to think of him living on the streets, but that is my problem to deal with, not my son’s.
I know that what I am doing by allowing him to stay here rent free, expense free, etc. is hurting him more so that is what I try to focus on, that I am doing the best for him. That helps.
I am so sorry for your situation, wow 11 years. My prayers are also with you. For me its only been about 4 years. I can’t imagine 8 more years of this…..in fact, that won’t happen because my husband will not let this go on much longer. He holds back in putting my son out right now for me because he loves me.
I know I am an enabler, I grew up this way, enabling my mom for years. Learned behavior I guess.
Your opinions are not too strong. It’s just what someone like me needs to hear, so I thank you.
Tammy
Lin, thank you for your response. It’s not so much that I carry guilt over my divorce. I guess I just feel like I messed up my son because I didn’t really address how the divorce affected him. I think the guilt comes from not addressing his feelings and that maybe I somehow messed him up. Maybe that is why he has always been behind in his real age mentally. He always seems to be about 2 years younger mentally than his actual age. I guess I’m going to have to go back to a counselor to resolve the issue I have with not addressing his feelings when he was younger.
Actually I am not afraid of the “empty nest”. Yes, I will miss my kids, but we will still have a relationship and my husband and I are so looking forward to finally being alone, to just pick up and go wherever we want, whenever we want. We have not had that because we started our marriage with already having my two children from previous marriage. So yes, the empty nest will be a great thing.
Yes, he is a manipulator. This is how he gets money. He manipulates his friends and god only knows what he tells them about us in order to get them to give him money or let him stay at their house for weeks on end.
Your opinions are strong and hit me hard when I read them, but they are correct and like I said, my head knows the right thing to do, my heart is what holds me back.
You are right, I have no right to hold him back and ruin his life…..wish me luck as I am working extremely hard to push him out of my nest and into one of his own.
Thanks, Tammy.
I know how difficult it is. My husband had to kick his younger son out of our house when he was 16 and it was sad even though I knew we couldn’t deal with his lies and staying out all night anymore. He also wrecked my husband’s motorcyle and almost got killed doing it! He also stole from us. It was the last straw for my husband.
He may be trying to make up for doing that so now he does everything for his son. His son has also gotten so dependent on my husband that he can’t make a move without calling here (as many as 6 times a day). He travels to our state once a month (we pay for it) so he can “interview” for jobs that he never gets, and he stays here for at least a week each time at our expense. This has been going on for close to two years. Not good!
When your son finally becomes independent, he’ll be a much happier person and so will you. Give him a chance and let him go.
Sincerely,
Betty
Hi Lin,
This site has proved to be a great sounding board as well as some of the most honest and constructive advise, I have been told.
We as parents do our best. No one is perfect. With that said, our children should look back and learn from our short comings as parents and perhaps be better people. Then they should move forward and make lives for themselves. We truly owe them nothing more. Todays economy has made it harder for this generation. It does seem harsh to just leave them without a roof over thier head. That does not mean that they can live home and play the sympathy card. If deadlines have not worked, I too would ask them to leave. Its amazing how resourceful they will become.
My son is in Germany this week spending part of the inheritance he received from my grandmother. I so look forward to the day when he stops getting handouts and grows up. Until then I have applied so much of what I have learned reading this blog. Thank you Lin, You are wonderful and true to your beliefs!
I am in the process of shutting down the bank on my 30 year old son. Are there any good stories out there of how it went well when they did this. I’ve read alot and don’t see success stories.
G, Having your child stand on his own should have come alot sooner. They get used to being able to fall back on us and not stand on thier own two feet. Our goal as parents is to teach independance. Of course he will be angry but in time he will thank you.
While vacationing, I talked with a woman who was in her 70s and finally shutting her son off. She wished she had done it sooner. The longer you wait, the more damage that is done. Stay firm on your convictions! Good luck!
G, the unfortunate thing I’ve found is that the many success stories I’ve been told are only through email messages. I get quite a few emails from parents who tell me their story of enabling their grown kids and the steps they took to stop it, including closing bank accounts etc. When I ask them to post their story on the site or at least within the comment section, they decline the request to ‘protect their privacy’, which I can understand. Even doing so anonymously or under a different name/first name only scenario, they always decline. Sorry.
G, I’ve only known one person who finally stopped enabling her son, but it wasn’t pretty.
After her son forged her signature on several checks which wiped out her bank account, and put several hundred dollars worth of calls on her phone bill, she pressed charges against him and he went to jail. I haven’t seen her for awhile so don’t know how all has turned out. At least she stopped the criminal acts. It must have been so heartbreaking for her to finally do it! I hope not many people have to go to those extremes, but it had to be done in her case.
Sometimes I wish my husband had pressed charges against his son for stealing money and his motorcycle (maybe he would not have crashed and totaled it). Protecting someone who commits acts like that isn’t good for anybody. His son was very cocky when he got out of the hospital. I guess he knew his dad wouldn’t do anything to him.
Not the kind of stories you need to hear. I hope someone else has a good story to tell. I think we all need to hear of someone else who bit the bullet and did what had to be done for the good of everyone involved!
Best to you!
Hi. My son is 29. His father and I divorced when he was 3. I remarried and my husband raised him as his own. Fast forward, my son got into drugs and we moved back to my hometown to care for my elderly parents and so I wouldn’t have to see my son destroy himself with the drugs. Well, he hit rock bottom (or so I thought) and was sleeping in a park with drug dealers looking for him. So I went and got him and moved him to our town. Set him up in a cute little house a block from us. He got a job and was doing well or so I thought again. Got involved with more druggie people, ended up getting arrested twice on the same day…. once for pot seeds/stems and the other for DUI. I bailed him outta jail. He started counseling and seemed to do better, until he met his now wife. She is a former convict and drug user. Was in prison 3 years. Anyway, she and my son got married, had a son whom we watched all the time. She is a major manipulator and has to control everyone and everything. Well, my husband got tired of the games and he and my daughter-in-law had words. Next thing we know they hightailed out of the state in the middle of the night to another state where my ex lives. No word from them or how our grandson was for 8 months. Well they couldn’t make it on their own as my ex showed them tough love. They didn’t like it and started contacting me again. I suckered for it again because of wanting to see my grandson so much. They moved back and into our house. It was a tense situation. My daughter-in-law took over the house, she intimidates me and I cave. My husband says I need to stand up to her but I was afraid they’ve take off again. My son got a job and they moved into their own place, she was pregnant for the second time. My son couldn’t hold onto his job, and hasn’t held onto a job for more than a few weeks time in the past 5 years or so. So he’d ask us to help with this or that and I did. My husband went along with it because he loves me. My daughter-in-law has not only conned and manipulated me but also her mother who lives 660.00 a month fixed income. The woman is so emotionally torn by what her children have done to her by way of manipulations and lies and con games. Well she and I got together and compared notes and we couldn’t believe all the lies told to us about one another. So we all started saying NO. My son and daughter-in-law didn’t like it so daughter-in-law moved onto another victim…. her sister in another state. So they moved yet again to another state. Well the sister saw through the manipulations pretty fast, so the phone calls started to me again about how they hate it their, how their life sucks there, etc. I missed my 2 grandsons so much I went and got them and paid for the move back in which they lived with us yet again. And then find out she’s pregnant again. The stress was so bad that my husband ended up in the hospital with hypertension attack. I have RA, it used to be in remission – it no longer is due to stress. Well the two older grandsons are so attached to us, we’re their safe place and stability from my daughter-in-laws temper tantrums, cursing and yelling, and from my son’s temper and frustration with his wife. They try and pit me and my husband against each other… sometimes it has worked which has been my fault. They always need a favor, money for diapers, money for the utility bill, money for the cable/tv bill, and now the latest for the back rent. I have given in in which I thought was helping, gave them 3000.00 to help out and never got paid back when they swore to me and my husband they would. We’ve forgotten about that because of the grandkids and wanting to stay in their life. I always live in fear that if I don’t do what my daughter-in-law says she’ll take the grandkids away as she knows they are my soft spot to control me. My son came today and wanted me to help him pay his rent. I said no. He had asked his father and he told him no. My husband told me he is done bailing them out and can’t live this way anymore and will divorce me to save himself. So like I said…. I told my son no. Well the next thing I know they tell me they’re taking the grandboys and moving to yet another state with another one of her sisters. They will be leaving within the week. My son finally got a good job, has been on the job for a little over a month but is giving his two weeks notice tonight. The third grandson was born this past summer and I felt something going amiss so I haven’t allowed myself… though I love him… to get emotionally attached to him like the other two grandboys. We watch the grandboys constantly, she can’t handle it when my sons at work. I am physically exhausted from watching them with my rheumatoid arthritis but I don’t say no because the grandboys need a good environment. It’s like we said no so we’re being punished for not helping. They always make statements like… family should help family. She uses my grandchildren as blackmail weapons. Some days I’d just like to go to bed and not wake up. This is miserable. My husband is done and says to let them go as does my parents, my brother and his wife. All my friends tell me to let them go and live my own life. My life has been my grandchildren… I adore them but I have to say I am not enjoying them as I should. My son and his wife make everything a drama, a chaos, a burden. There’s no family enjoyment. I am so angry and depressed. I will miss my grandsons terribly but not my son and his wife. I can’t raise my 3 grandkids because of my health so I will have to be a long distance grandmother yet again. My grandmothers passed when I was a toddler so I always felt a void so it’s been very important to me to be a hands on grandma. I did the tough love thing by standing up to the emotional blackmail by saying no and then this is what happens…. they run to another state again. I feel like I’m going crazy because I don’t know what normal is anymore and I don’t want to lose my husband either, but I don’t want to lose my grandchildren. I won’t allow them to bankrupt my husband and I. I don’t work due to my disability so I can’t keep handing over money and putting more debt on my husband. And who’s to say they won’t take off anyway? I will not spend a dime to move them back again no matter how much my son says he hates it. I can’t keep on this negative emotional roller coaster. I know what I have to do but doing the right thing has proven to have heartache repercussions to say the least. If people don’t do what my daughter-in-law says then she punishes them, I’ve seen her do it time and time again. This hurts so much and is so hard. I appreciate all the other posts, it lets me know I’m not the only one who has moocher kids. I know it’ll only stop if I stop it. But why do I have to lose my grandkids in the process? We will try and keep the lines of communication open for our grandchildren’s sakes, but no more money to my son and his wife. He needs to start being responsible and hold down a job, and my daughter-in-law who is a felon and can’t find a job then needs to step up and take care of the kids while my sons works. She wants him to do everything, work, take care of the kids, so laundry and he does it like a whipped puppy. He might have to continue living with her control but I do not. Thanks for listening. Any comments will be much appreciated.
J, what you’re going through is very similar in many ways to what other enabling parents go through with their grown kids. These “kids” sure know how to play the games don’t they? Mind games, manipulations, lies and various other tactics to get what they want. Often by holding the parents hostage so to speak by using the grandchildren as pawns in their diabolical mind games.
Of course you don’t want to lose your grandchildren, and of course you want to be a hands on grandparent. Every grandparent feels that way. Is losing your husband worth all this? Those grown kids have been treating you like their personal puppet, and are yanking those strings whenever they want in order to make you “dance” for them. When does it stop? When do you take your life back, when do you take away their ability to control and manipulate you into doing their bidding for them financially and in any other way?
You don’t have to lose your grandchildren. It may take some time and effort (and possibly a lawyer) to get things how they should and need to be. You cannot continue to allow those adults to behave like children and puppet you for the rest of your life, and not where you lose your husband in the process. He’s been the one that’s been with you throughout all these years, through thick and thin, and now he’s had enough – all he can take anymore. This is the time of your life where you and your husband should be enjoying the fruits of your labor, enjoying the fun parts of being a grandparent and the ability to enjoy the rest of your life together. Is this how you envisioned your life to be? I doubt it. What are you willing to do about it? Its all a choice. It’s a choice for the grown kids to do what they do – It’s a choice for you to go along with it. When does it stop?
J. Whew! You and your family have really been scammed by your son and his wife! My prayers go out to you! Not much to say. At least you’re doing something positive so you and your husband can have a life, again. Good for you.
Thanks for the feedback!!! I’ve got and have read (and will reread) the books… “Emotional Blackmail” and “Setting Boundaries With Your Adult Children” so I knew what I had to do. It’s taken me a while to get my head and heart in sync to do it. Well I am doing it, it was no to the late cable/phone bill. It was no to tax/license their vehicle, it was no to paying their back rent. They’re mad right now (again) and are taking off to another state – so be it. Yes, I will miss my grandsons, yes… I’m disappointed that I’m not going to be as involved in their lives. But that doesn’t mean I’m not a grandmother, I will just be a long distance one instead. I doubt I’ll get to say goodbye, but that’s ok, it’s happened before and they cool down and call. The difference this time is no money, no moving them back. I will support them with love not money! I’m the one who has to change this and the one who has to stick to this no matter what else they think of to throw at me. I deserve to be able to take care of my health, my husband and I deserve time together, I deserve to be able to spend time with my elderly parents. I am the ‘grand’parent, not the boys’ parent. Yes, I’ve been a puppet and I’m not proud of it nor do I want to lose my husband of 25 years. He is a good man, loving, honest, hard working and dependable. We deserve to have peace and laughter in our life. Went out for coffee with my sister-in-law tonight and it’s the first time in a long time since I did that. Though sad, I am feeling like a weight is being lifted from off of my shoulders. My grandchildren will be ok. I will be ok. I think my daughter-in-law manipulates my son and until he figures that out and takes a stand he’s always going to miserable. He’s married to her, I’m not. I’m sure there will still be tests from them. But if I keep reading positive things and keep positive people around me I will grow stronger, and keep saying no money. I need to respect my husband’s feelings about enough is enough with them. It’s helped a lot just to type out my feelings. I’m sure I’m going to have some sad days ahead, but I’ve got the tools to get through it. I just had to make up my mind and heart to do it. You asked all the right questions Lin, thank you for that. Betty, I agree… I’ve been scammed but no more. What I’ve been living with the past several years hasn’t been a life. So I think putting some geographical distance between us all will be a good thing. And ‘someday’ I hope to be able to go visit, enjoy the grandsons then come back home to my own life. It won’t happen overnight, so patience is the key in the meantime. And I hope my son learns to stand on his own two feet and take pride in taking responsibility and providing for his own family. I see where my enabling, (that word is hard to admit but so true) hasn’t helped but really hindered my son. So now saying no is really saying I love you, he just doesn’t understand that yet. Thanks for listening everyone
I as of today will not talk to my daughter again, she has caused so much grief. She has 4 children failing in school, disrespectful to adults, no thank you for anything. I have cut out xmas, b/d’s, no more gifts I have had it. She does not teach them what they need to know in life, I feel as this is not my daughter, no drugs she does not drink, maybe depression, I can’t deal with it anymore as with her husband,….she does not see how she is headed for a brick wall, taking the kids with her, she has a very hurtful way of saying things to those she supposedly loves. Makes me terribly sad in so many ways.
Judy, I’m so sorry the relationship between you and your daughter has deteriorated to this degree. It’s heartbreaking on so many levels how family relationships, even between parents and their own children, can become so hurtful that one or both don’t feel the relationship can go on. Perhaps after some cooling down of emotions, the two of you can work things out by openly and honestly but respectfully discuss where things went wrong and then work towards building a better relationship. I hope so for you and your daughter, and for your precious grandchildren.
Hi, just wanted to update… my husband and I have continued to stand our ground. I think it’s shocked our son and daughter-in-law that even after they threatened to move to another state we still didn’t give in. So guess what, they aren’t moving and my son never gave his two weeks notice so we know it was all another scam to get money. I’m disappointed in myself for getting upset about it. We’ve stepped back and have started doing our own things. They’ve called and we do exactly what the “Emotional Blackmail” book says to do – we use nondefensive communication with them. My husband and I are feeling more empowered. They called to ask us to watch the grandboys but we had other plans for the next day and I said no, that’s not going to work out for us this time. My son started to whine and I said I’m right in the middle of getting supper so I’ll have to let you go, bye son. And I got off the phone. I didn’t even give him the chance to pressure me into giving up my plans. Another time they called and asked me the day before to watch one of the grandboys the next evening, and I said yes that’ll work. I’ve been able to rest as I need for my RA and am starting to feel better. However, my husband and I will continue to remain guarded! My husband says he sees I’m working on changing (for the better) how I handle things with our son/daughter-in-law. Though hard, tough love is the right thing to do. I’m sure my son and especially my daughter-in-law will still ‘try’ and manipulate. The more we keep saying no and sticking to our no the better it will be. Thanks.
J, I am soooo proud of both of you for sticking to your guns and seeing how well it works out to say no and mean it! Yeah for you two!!! You are smart to watch out for emotional blackmail tactics from them and stay guarded because the “kids” often come up with new and previously unused tactics to manipulate parents to get their way. Parents should not and must not be at their kids “beck and call” for every little thing and end up getting walked on and used. Yeah for you guys!!!! I’m so proud of how you were able to stay strong and get off the phone in a kind but swift manner when your son tried to put on a little pressure to give in. Yeah for you!!! Take a bow, take a bow!!! You’re doing great! Now just keep it up and you’ll see how you’re able to enjoy your own life and things you want/need to do for yourselves, but also be able to enjoy grandkids and family time when and IF you want to.
J.
Fantastic! So glad you are able to do this for yourselves (and eventually for your son)! I’m sure as time goes on, it will get easier and easier to show tough love, and your son will respect you more for it (if he learns anything from this)! You won’t lose your grandkids and you’ll all be happier. More relaxed, too.
Thanks Lin & Betty! My husband starts a week’s vacation Monday and for the first time in I don’t know how long, we’re going out of town for several days… just the two of us! I am really looking forward to some rest & relaxation. I hate to say this… but it feels almost foreign to be doing something for ourselves for a change. Don’t know if this is because they’ve figured out that the Dad and Mom Bank has closed, but my daughter-in-law went out and got a job!
So I plan to keep taking it day by day with them because I think you’re right on Lin in saying… “stay guarded because the “kids” often come up with new and previously unused tactics to manipulate parents to get their way”. Thanks again!
My son is 24, I am an enabler that finally figured out how to let go.I am over it and it has been an very intense process. Does he still have a chance to get it together or did I completely mess him up for life? He doesn’t work, isn’t motivated,talks the talk but doesn’t walk the walk, smokes a lot of pot, has a new enabler which is a 20 year old girlfriend.
Mo,
No, you haven’t messed him up for life. He has choices and decisions to make as an adult and they are his and his alone, along with the consequences. Stick to your guns of not enabling him. It’s typical for these “kids” to find another person to step in as enabler, but at least it’s not you. Sooner or later the other enablers figure out they’re only being used and opt out abruptly.
I have one child……a son. He’s now 42. I took him out of my first marriage…….an abusive marriage….. before he was even two years old because I could see how badly it was starting to affect him, even at his tender young age. When he was three, I married a man who had no children. We’ll be married 40 years next year. My husband has always been a wonderful father and husband. We weren’t fortunate enough to have children together, so we focused solely on my only son. He’s always been adored, we’ve always fed his self esteem, always showed our pride in him.
We’ve never been wealthy, but we’ve always been comfortable financially. Because we didn’t want to worry about son being in unreliable cars, we’d buy him new to fairly-new cars through high school and college. We paid the insurance on them. We also paid for his college education. I won’t go into how he took advantage of us by taking my husband’s brand new car without permission (when he was in high school) and smashed it up. We also won’t go into how he then smashed up the beautiful car we gave to HIM to drive. Those were teen years, and we honestly were naive enough to think they’d pass and that one day he’d realize how loved and fortunate he was………..and there would be a happy ending with a great relationship between us and son.
He’d bad mouth us in a way I never would have dreamed of bad mouthing my parents, even though I had far less in life than my son was given. My husband and I have worked our own way through life……….no help from our parents. Still, we showed respect.
I was a stay-at-home mom, because my husband and I felt that was best for my son. I was always there for him, through whatever he experienced. My husband was always there for him, too. We tolerated many of my son’s outbursts, always thinking it was a stage he’d just get through.
We continued to help him any way we could when he got married. They got TV’s from us, NordicTrak equipment, we helped them move and make their lawn pretty when they bought a home. We threw an expensive event for them when they turned 40. No great fuss was made by either of them as all these events took place. In fact, they barely spent five minutes with us at the party we threw for them.
It seems their friends have the spotlight in my son’s and dil’s lives. They do not want children of their own, and I’ve come to realize it’s because my son is very selfish and doesn’t want to share with a child of his own. When the two of them are not at work, they spend every minute with their friends. In the past, I’ve mentioned how much I’d love to see more of them, since they live only 15 minutes from us; but, each time I mention it, he’s jumped all over me and has then gone months without speaking to us.
This past Mother’s Day while dining at a restaurant, I asked him, quietly and nicely, if he could find the time to come see us once a week or once every other week. He sizzled with anger. He told me I had just ruined another holiday by bringing up “visits.” I asked him if he knew how heartless he was being. He made the most horrible,wicked “grinning” face and shook his head, “Yes!” I was taken aback by this blunt display of cruelty and said, “You mean you agree that you’re being heartless?” Again, he made the horrible, wicked, “grinning” face and nodded “Yes.” He followed that up with “And I’m not gonna spend the rest of the day with you. I’m going home from here.”
Tears rolled silently down my cheeks. My dil said nothing, as it’s never been her practice to say anything to him like “These are your parents. They’ve been loving and generous to both of us, and I think you should show them some respect.” SHE would NEVER speak to her parents in this manner. The odd part about that is she’s been given more in life since she came into our family, because we spoiled her in ways her parents wouldn’t dream of.
If my husband and I could think of any good reason for them to want us out of their lives, this might make sense to us; but we can’t! My son hinted that he finds us boring now that we’re seniors. He can’t stand to visit with us and do nothing but talk. It’s just not “him,” as he put it.
Though they want nothing to do with us, we still sent her a check for her birthday. Why did we send her a check in spite of everything that’s transpired? Because we already honored my son’s birthday earlier this year, and we’re very fair people; so we didn’t think it would be right to ignore dil’s birthday. When their anniversary came up, we decided enough was enough and didn’t acknowledge it at all. That’s very out of character for us.
You may be thinking we went overboard in everything we did. Our friends have stated that the only mistake we’ve made is to make my son the center of our universe. Funny, but I didn’t think you could love a child too much or nurture them too much. I honestly believed the only thing that could come from focusing so much attention on a child was love between parents and the child. What a fool I am. How can a person become mean and cruel simply from lots of love and attention? We never visited them unless we were invited, because we’ve heard so many couples complain about interference from parents and in-laws. But does that mean we shouldn’t expect any visits from them, except for maybe 10 times a year? Or if they need something? They never have holidays at their home. My son cut out Valentine cards, because he said he doesn’t feel Valentine’s Day is meant for parents. Then he made sure he made plans that didn’t include us for Memorial Day, the 4th of July, Labor Day and Easter. That left only Christmas and every other Thanksgiving as holidays spent together. The preparations for Thanksgiving and Christmas were left up to me. By the time I was their age, I was already relieving my mother of holiday responsisbility for years and years, but they don’t seem to think about taking a turn for anything.
Unexpectedly today I received an email from son……the first communication in over six months. It said only:
“Hello. Thought you’d want to know that my father in law had a second heart attack over the weekend, had to have a balloon procedure done in the hospital, but will probably be allowed to come home tomorrow. How are you guys doing?”
That was it. He didn’t even sign it. Now, how are we supposed to respond to that? There was no sign of an apology, no sign of affection, nothing. Am I just supposed to forget what happened six months ago and act like nothing ever happened? He’s used to having us give in with no apology necessary. He just expects us never to mention it again. We refuse to do that any more. So, how do we respond to his email?
Through my pain, I’m working diligently at teaching myself that my husband and I have just as much right to be respected as son does; and, by always giving in to him when he gives us the silent treatment, even when I KNOW he’s wrong, I’m giving up self respect. I have to teach myself to love myself. It’s not the way I would have chosen it to be. It’s not what I worked at for the 42 years of my son’s life. It happens to be what my son obviously wants. This time I want to succeed at all costs, because the price my husband and I pay trying to keep my son a part of our lives would be way out of the ballpark for any parent.
Can you offer any advice as to how to respond to his email? I’d be very grateful.
Hi Angie and everyone else,
Sorry I haven’t jumped in to the discussion today yet but I’ve been pretty sick. You all have done a great job responding to Angie and I truly appreciate all your words to her. I will do my best to jump in and respond sometime tomorrow, but for today I’ve got to get some rest. Sorry.
So sorry you’re ill. Your getting well is more important than jumping on a computer, so do take care of yourself.
GET WELL, LIN!! GET PLENTY OF REST!
Angie. I’m so sorry your son has taken such drastic measures to be away from your company when other kids are happy to share in their parents’ lives. My guess is that he only contacted you this time because he got a scare when his fil had a heart attack. Hopefully, he is thinking about how a major health scare for you or your husband would affect him, and will learn from it.
The temptation to give our kids everything they want is great, but we should not do it. Most kids will become spoiled adults and not be grateful for what we do for them. Yes, I have seen it in our family and it is a point of contention here. Also, there are kids who were NOT spoiled and they are far more loving and want to be in our company for holidays and any time we can get together. That’s what every parent hopes for in life. It’s nice to be there for our kids, but to make them the center of our lives is not healthy for anyone.
I wish you the best, and hope there is a way to get through to your son and his wife. You are in my prayers!
Sorry. Forgot to address your question.
If I were in your shoes, I would simply e-mail him back and say that you are fine and thank you for the e-mail. The ball is now in his court.
Do you think he feels that you may be overly concerned about him? Did he ever show signs of feeling overly protected as a child or teen? Do you think he is reacting to over-parenting? Just a thought. Sometimes people rebel against something like parents who care too much. I may just be seeing something that isn’t there, but it came to mind when I read your post, again.
Anyway, enough from me.
Thank you for responding, Betty. I think I probably was a little overly protective when he was very young; however, I think that changed once he started driving. Although I worried about him (and he certainly gave us plenty of reasons not to stop worrying), the only thing we asked him to abide by was being home at a decent hour for school the next day. All of his friends were always welcome in our home. In fact, I always felt guilty for not being able to provide him with a sibling; so we always took at least one of his friends with us on day trips, had them stay overnight, etc., to keep him company. We never wanted him to feel lonely. He would never give us a hand with any chores when he was growing up. Asking him to do anything always led to an argument because he just refused to help out. As a result, I cleaned his room weekly, did his laundry, etc. His room was always in a state of disaster. Yes, it was HIS room; but that room is in OUR house. I had reached a point where doing everything myself was easier than having another argument with him.
We had gotten a new car for our son; and, at the same time, my husband bought himself a new one also. My husband actually had his new car delivered to our home by the dealer because my husband had to leave on a business trip, so he didn’t even have a chance to drive his new car before leaving. My son’s car was black. He decided to wash his car. When he woke the next day for school, it was raining; and unbeknownst to me, he decided he didn’t want his black car to get spotted by the rain, so he took my husband’s car without asking or telling me. Shortly after he left, my phone rang. It was my son telling me he had an accident and directing me to where he was. When I went out to the garage, my husband’s new car was gone; but son’s sat there in the garage. I couldn’t believe he had actually taken my husband’s car. I drove son’s car to where he had the accident. My husband’s new car was so badly smashed that I had to have a flatbed come get it. No one else was involved in the accident, and I thanked God that my son wasn’t hurt. However, that didn’t take away from the wrong my son did in taking my husband’s car. I handled everything and then drove him to school.
When my husband returned from his trip, there was no car waiting for him. My husband had gotten my son a part-time job where he worked. My son had a day off from school, so he and my husband went to work together. It was that day that the body shop called to say that my husband’s car was finally fixed. My husband asked my son if he would drive him to the body shop on their lunch hour so that he could pick up his car. Son agreed. After picking up his car, my husband told son maybe it would be a good idea if they stopped by our house on the way back to work, leave my son’s car home; and the two of them could drive back to work in my husband’s car to see how it was running. It wouldn’t have been a problem, since they had the same hours at work that day. Son emphatically said no way. He was driving back to work in his own car. And that’s what he did. He left the body shop ahead of my husband, as my husband had to square away some paper work there. When my husband got back to work, there was son’s car driven into the building; and son was no where to be found. Other employees were standing outside the building and my husband asked them what happened. They said my son was driving too fast, slid on the wet grass and plowed his car into the building. Then he ran away. My husband had just made an insurance claim for my son’s accident with my husband’s new car and was fearful that our rates would really jump up if he made another claim so soon, so he told the company he’d pay for the building damage out of his own pocket, which meant he’d also have to pay for the damage to son’s car. And that’s exactly what he did. He paid for all of it. We never got any kind of apology from my son for any of what he did, and he never said thank you for the expense he caused my husband.
Before he was old enough to drive, he would ask us to take him to a skating rink because he and his friends wanted to skate. One of those nights, after taking him to the rink, my husband and I went shopping at a mall. Afterwards, in the dark, we saw a group of kids running along a highway; and I remarked to my husband that the kids were really taking a risk walking on a busy highway in the dark. As our headlights focused on the kids, we noticed one of the kids was our son. He had lied to us about skating and was out carousing instead. When we called his name, he ran into a field to hide. Could we trust him? I don’t think so. I could go on and on; but, hopefully, you get the idea.
We participated in everything that seemed to mean a lot to him. He got all the music lessons he wanted, only to quit all of them. We attended every little league baseball game he played. He didn’t like the middle school he was attending, so we made the arrangements that enabled him to switch schools. We’d always ask him where he’d like to go on vacation, and we always abided by what he chose, always striving to make him happy so that he would have nothing but good memories of life with his parents. He knows that my husband and I bought our cemetary plots. He informed us that he doesn’t believe in burials, so we shouldn’t expect him to visit our graves or put flowers on them. The list of hurtful things goes on and on.
Ya know, Betty, when our parents got older, they weren’t as much fun either; but we visited them anyway……….all the time. We made sacrifices all the way around for our parents and for our son. My son doesn’t seem to believe in sacrifices. It seems to be all about his fun, his good times, being with his friends.
I guess we were enablers, but I still don’t understand how a child who got so much – in love, attention, material things and self confidence – could have the attitude he has now. He told me I would make a wonderful grandmother but he didn’t intend to make me one. I responded that I don’t think anyone should have children just to please someone else. I never gave him a hard time about it, even though I would have loved being a grandmother. We used to do things so spontaneously when we were younger. In fact, my son once told me he would have been bored if he had grown up in anyone else’s home. Well, I guess that’s all changed.
My husband mentioned the same thing you did about his possibly being concerned about health issues since his f-i-l had a heart attack. I wish I could agree; but, honestly, I don’t think he thinks enough of us to care. I can’t really figure out what his motivation was. Does he feel he’s now made an attempt at “reaching out?” Well, if that’s his motivation, it won’t work…..not this time. If we had treated him with the cruelty he treated us, we would have offered an apology.
I can’t believe I’ve gone on so. There’s so much more I could tell, but I’m weary at this point. I’ve cried my heart out day after day. I don’t know how I have any tears left to shed, but I’m determined to allow myself self respect. I hope I can do it.
P.S. Betty, thank you for the prayers. That’s the best I could ask of anyone.
Dear Angie,
I feel your pain. I have written in the past about my son. We always felt we were attentive parents, loving and caring, but once he left home we feel the distance. We helped him on a few occasions with bill collectors and he could not have been more disrespectful. He never paid us back and treated us like we were casual aquaintances. We seldom hear from him and when my birthday comes, he does not even send a card. We send him one for every occasion.
Honestly, we need to find the respect for ourselves. We should not appear needy and we should focus on our marriages. My husband and I are working on our relationship with our two daughters and letting our son figure it out for himself. He is only 25 but I don’t think he will change. Sadly you do not have another child but I still feel your marriage counts for alot. Obviously you have a wonderful man. Love him! Find something in your life that will bring you joy. Plant a garden, take a class in something that interest you, take a walk, pray, cook a gourmet meal, rent a comedy and remember that YOU are worth loving. Once you believe it, you will feel better. Its his loss!!! Believe it!!!! Just because he is your son does not mean you will have a healthy relationship. I do believe things can improve. Never bring up that you want him around more often. He knows that and it will make him just feel guilt. Guilt trips are just not the way to go and it will push him away or give him an excuse to not want to come around.
As far as what to say, simply stated, We are both very well, thanks for asking. So sorry to hear about your father in law, we will keep him in our prayers, Love to you all, mom and dad
Good luck Angie, remember you need to love yourself before anyone else can love you. You did it all right, hold your head up high.
Thank you, Debbie. I’m sorry for what you’re going through with your son, also. I’ve always been sad that I wasn’t blessed with more than one child. Maybe I wouldn’t have focused so much on my son if I had had the opportunity to “divide” myself a little. As for making him feel guilty, even if I didn’t bring up visiting for months and months, nothing changed. It isn’t my making him feel guilty that keeps him away. I don’t think he’s capable of feeling guilt where my husband and I are concerned or he wouldn’t say or do the things he does.
There’s something definitely lacking in him along the lines of compassion. When he was in college, he told me that he had the best of all worlds in me and my husband; because I am so tuned into emotions that there was nothing he had to be afraid or embarrassed to tell me, and my husband is so analytical that there was nothing he couldn’t figure out. Those were HIS words. Why doesn’t he remember them?
Despite the fact that we did a lot of sacrificing for my parents, I have to admit they were a bad influence. When I had to get a divorce from my first husband, it was on the grounds of extreme cruelty. Because I knew the extent my ex would go, I was always frightened by him, even after we were divorced. I had no money to speak of because my ex made me turn it over to him (or else!), even when I was working; so I had to move back into my parents’ home with my son. I had to get a job and turned over most of my paycheck to my parents in order to live there, leaving very little for myself. My child support was only $20 a week……….not because my ex couldn’t afford a ton more (he was paid handsomely in his job) but because that’s all he offered; and, being so afraid of him, I knew better than to push it. Son and I only lived with my parents a year and a half. It was in that time period that I met and married my husband. However, from the time I was separated, divorced and remarried, my parents decided it was their job to take over the care of my son. If I did try to discipline him, they’d reprimand me right in front of him, saying things like, “Go ahead. Make him dislike you, and he’ll run to his father to live with him.” My father even reached the point where, when speaking to my son, he’d say, “Come to daddy” instead of “Come to grandpa.” As a dutiful daughter who never wanted to show disrespect to my parents, I allowed it to go on without saying a word. My parents would even grab my son out of my husband’s arms when he was holding him and say “WE’LL take care of him,” as though they didn’t trust my husband to be a good father. He’s an EXCELLENT father………..better than many biological fathers. He’s sweet, kind, loving, compassionate, and has a heart of gold. If I blame myself for anything, it’s not having the courage to speak up to my parents. My husband never confronted them about what they were doing either. We both were raised with a strong sense of respecting your elders, particularly your parents. I honestly believe my parents played a big role in how my son saw me and my husband.
Now you know another part of my story. There’s still so much more. People who know my life tell me I literally could write a book.
We just adopted two rescue dogs that are keeping us busy. We hope our love will help them forget the horrors of their past life.
Thank you for the suggestion on how to respond to the email, Debbie. And bless you for taking the time to try to help me. I wish you good luck with your son also.
Oh no! No wonder you have a chld who is the way he is! With that kind of interference from your parents, it’s no wonder! Yikes! They only succeeded in making you sound like the bad guy.
I know what that’s like. My ex caused many problems in our family even while we were still married by siding with our girls, and insisting that he air our personal problems in front of the kids so often that they lost all respect for me. (Luckily, I was able to raise our son who was too young to see what his dad was like.) It was especially apparent that the girls were confused and showed their disrespect more often just before they left to live with their father after he divorced me. He and his girlfriend convinced them to take what they said about me as the truth and to leave both me and their brother. It took years for us to become very close. They finally realized that their father lied (as well as his wife) and have expressed regret that I didn’t raise them. We all lost something precious, however, it’s ok now. Just caused much trouble for my girls that they did not need to go through.
I hate to see families go through such turmoil! It’s difficult enough to raise children without having someone interfere and confuse the children! I call it a form of child abuse. It certainly can ruin a family!
I can imagine the suffering you experienced when your girls left to go live with their father and his wife. It had to cut like a knife. It sounds like you and your girls lost many precious years together, but I’m so glad it has a happy ending and that it’s okay now.
I feel I’m the one who suffered child abuse, not my son. At one point in time, my son confessed that my parents were GREAT for HIM, because they interfered with any discipline I tried to enforce, but that he could see how awful it was for me. The odd thing is my parents allowed my son to say and do things they would never have accepted from me. They were so very stern and strict with me….the total opposite of the way they were with my son. As I said, I blame myself for not confronting them; but I didn’t, and now I have to live with my mistake.
Yes, you did. Believe me, I know how you felt! If you were raised like I was, it was never tolerated for us to question anything our parents said or did (even when they were wrong). They didn’t know that it was ok to say “I’m sorry”! That’s what I love about being a parent now. We can do that and our kids love us for being honest with them.
Sometimes we over-compensate with our own kids so they won’t think we’re overbearing like our parents were. It’s just human nature to want them to like us. Unfortunately, it can come back to bite. My ex wanted our girls to like him (to be buddies) which resulted in their disliking him later. THEN I felt sorry for him because he didn’t know that being a parent means setting guidelines and having expectations for our kids. As adults, ours were able to see that I just wanted them to be prepared to be on their own someday so I had to be the parent and have rules for them. They know I love them and only have their best interests at heart. We can be friends now because I’m not raising them anymore. Don’t always have to be the “parent” in our relationship.
Maybe someday your son will realize that he was very lucky to have unconditional love from his parents. I wish he would see that having kids is a blessing. That’s usually when kids realize just how difficult it is to be a parent and how gratifying it is. I loved being with my kids and have those wonderful memories of what we did together (they do, too)! No one can take that from us. Wouldn’t have had such good memories if we had not had kids! Pets just don’t cut it!
You won’t find a greater animal lover than I, Betty; and, although pets don’t take the place of absent children, they do help ease the pain with their unconditional love and attention. Mine sometimes make me laugh when laughing is the last thing on my mind. It’s a welcomed break from tears. Truly.
Hi Angie,
I just wanted to respond to your opinion on the “guilt trip”. You are so right, your son probably does not feel a bit of guilt. I know my son does not either. If I were to ask why he does not come around, he would probably try and make me feel badly and use that as an excuse to stay away. It is what it is, a sign of the times. Somehow this generation has lost the sense of respect and unconditional love for family. Family should matter, but for many it does not.
I focus on things that make me smile and stay positive. Your fortunate to have such a wonderful pet. Enjoy him! I work with the elderly doing activities and have a side business as a companion. Seniors make me feel needed and complete and most of all appreciated and loved. Whatever it is that has you turn that frown upside down, DO IT! Embrace the day!!! Good luck Angie!!!
Thanks, Debbie. We’re in total agreement. I have no doubt in my mind that my son is incapable of feeling guilt when it comes to my husband and me. If I never brought up visitation again, it still wouldn’t change his attitude about visiting us. BUT I’m trying to change MY attitude. That means not giving in to being treated badly. However, I have to accept that my son has no desire not to treat us badly; therefore, I have to resign myself to the fact that there will be no relationship. I feel there are only two choices open to me:
1 – Accept him on his own terms and learn to live with the disrespect just to have a “speaking” relationship…………or
2- Love myself enough to demand the respect I know I deserve but won’t get from him, and have no relationship at all; because he’ll never agree to that demand.
As painful as it is and as hard as I have to work at it, I’m choosing No. 2…………for the first time in my life.
You sound like a wonderful person, and I wish you many wonderful things. Thank you for the interest you’ve shown in my problem. It’s appreciated more than words can say.
Debbie and Angie, I apologize if I sounded like I don’t think pets are needed by people to give them love and a reason to get up on some days.
I have had many different pets (parakeets, dogs, cats, rabbits, turtles, hamsters, and even tried to hatch baby robins once, but my history with them has not been as good as yours has obviously been.
I was an Army brat who traveled for many years and sometimes lived in one place for less than 6 months. In fact, we lived in more than a few places for under a year. It was so difficult to have to give away family pets, or to have them die after falling in love with them. I became almost indifferent to pets of all types after that. I still like animals, but we haven’t had one for about three years now. Our last cat was put to sleep without our permission or knowledge so I am not sure I want to have any more. I have also devloped an allergy to some cats and dogs with the sniffling and itchy nose kind of thing going on so can’t have them in the house anymore.
As far as working with the elderly, I want to do that now that I’m off the Bridge of our group, so I can devote time to meals on wheels, the elderly, and NAMI. I can’t wait to do more volunteering! It’s very worthwhile and satisfying. I’ve always loved the elderly and have learned so much from them (since I was in my twenties)!
Best to both of you in your endeavours!
No apology needed, Betty. I’m just so sorry you’ve been through so much pain with having to give pets away. I honestly do know how you feel about not wanting to experience that pain again. We lost our last dog this past March, and I swore I wouldn’t put myself through that pain again. However, we have a friend who works with abused animals; and she introduced us to two dogs who captured our hearts immediately. I’m a very emotional person, and it breaks my heart to learn that any living creature has to go through life never knowing love, whether they be humans or animals. I can’t save all of them, although heaven knows I wish I could; but we have now saved two of them.
Your desire to work with the elderly is so admirable. I know you’ll get fulfillment from it, because it will be so satisfying to do for others what they’re unable to do for themselves. They’ll love you for it. Many good wishes from me to you, as well as a big thank you.
I have been scrolling through the various postings and find them interesting. My situation seems different as my 30 year old son’s behavior has worsened in the last two years. I have 4 children — all are adults now with children of their own. I divorced their father 12 years ago. There was sexual abuse by him against one of my daughters. After the abuse he treated her more favorably than her siblings. They resented her favored position with her father but didn’t know about the abuse until about 5 years ago. While it was worse for her by far, everyone was damaged by what happened. I have remarried a wonderful man who all my children have loved and respected.
My 30 year old son has always been very sensitive, artistic, and caring for the less fortunate, but has had a hard time telling the absolute truth since he was a teenager and the marriage was falling apart– often exaggerated things. He has had a history of anxiety as well. His first marriage ended in divorce after his wife ran off with another man after several indiscretions. He desperately tried to preserve the marriage, but I had seen him regulary be verbally aggressive to her and he had trouble holding a job because of his anxiety. When she left he fell apart and I was worried about suicide. He became very dependent on me emotionally– calling me for hours every day at first but lessening over time. My husband and I helped him a bit with legal fees and we did see improvement in his life after the first year of divorce. He got a regular job, takes good care of his daughter, and only borrowed some small amounts of money from us here and there and mostly paid it back. He remarried a couple of years ago to a wonderful woman. I thought things were going well for him. But I see that he makes her do things for him like make almost all phone calls for him and she told me that he doesn’t like to leave the apartment. He has been extremely jealous of any time I spend with my other kids and wants to compare how much I spend on presents for them to what I buy for him. A year or so ago he picked a fight with my daughter and her husband in a cafe because he was mad that I allowed his brother in law to pick the place to eat. He then changed the event in his retelling so that he was attacked verbally by his brother in law and he was only defending himself. Since I was there I saw how he misrepresented the incident.
This last summer I let him know that I would not be as available for small loans and would not be able to be as generous at holiday time because I had to take a temporary pay cut. I was visiting in his area this last week and went to see him and he treated me in a confusing, demeaning manner. In a way differnt from how he has treated me before. I asked him about it and he blew up, screaming and such, saying I always treat the other kids better, that I always bad mouth his father (I actually have worked hard on not doing that for the last 5 years). I told him I would have to leave because I couldn’t be screamed at. I put my hands on his face and said “look at me please, I love you.” I left and he had his wife call me to come back. I said I appreciated her call but I really needed to speak to him. He called eventually and said that I had manhandled him and was treating him like a child, screaming at me over the phone. To make a long story short, he told me that I was never welcomed in his house again and neither was my husband (whom he has always loved). He kept saying that I and my husband were calling him or his wife a liar when we didn’t. He kept bringing up his dad and how I was abusing his dad somehow and not allowing him to have any happy memories. But his dad was not even part of what was going on.
So my thoughts are as follows — perhaps something is going on that I don’t know anything about. If not then perhaps he feels unsafe since he realized that my safety net was less available to him, he has drawn closer to his father as he seeks another one, while he had been sympathetic to his sister’s abuse before, he has to deny it now (which he is doing) in order to be closer to his dad. He lashed out at me because he still wants me to provide a safety net but resents feeling dependent on me at the same time.
My question deals with the following: I wrote him a rather tame email a few days later and said that I saw some truth in his accusation that I treat him as a child and wanted him to describe for me how our new relationship would look like –how would I treat him differently and such. He responded with an angry message saying how despicable I and my husband are, how disappointed he is with me, and he will not tolerate such treatment of his family.
I have felt emotionally destroyed but today am feeling stronger. Do I ignore his message or answer it. If I answer it do I say something along the lines that I will always love him and wish him and his family the best, but feel that we both need some time apart for reflection. Or do I tell him how I really feel about the situation and how I am worried about him. It doesn’t feel like a time to try and defend myself but I really do not know what the right thing to do is.
Sounds like your son is developing a Borderline Personality Disorder. His issues are beyond what you can correct. He should seek professional treatment.
Joe, can’t tell whether your comment is to me or someone else, but sounds good to me! Thanks.
No one replied to my message. Did I put it in the wrong place?
Since writing it I have done a lot of reading about borderline personality disorders. My son matches it so perfectly. The interesting thing is that most of the advice for dealing with someone with BPD matches that of how to stop enabling. Those of you who write about how awful your adult child has treated you — and my son has treated me badly — might consider that they could have a mental disorder. That shouldn’t change how you treat them if the PPD advice I have looked at is correct — but it might help you not to take it so personally. One warning, however, you should never tell someone they have a mental disorder. Only a doctor should. But the advice given here might help them seek out help and discover this for themselves. Louise
I wish I could not help my son out, but he has congestive heart failure. Yes he squanders his money, but if I just let him go, his health could deteriorate quickly. I am stuck forever helping him. He needs to get to medical appontments out of town once a month and he is on disability with no help except from me for these expenses. He would skip these needed appointments if I didn’t help.
I am also dealing with a adult child who just won’t grow up. Recently I have realized that I have become a enabler. So I have realized I have to change the way deal with the child. To start with and to end with I am just gonna say no. Because this child is so good a munipulating I know there is no other way. I have already tried. I will take responcibility for my actions. And now so will she. Thanks for the article. I really needed to know there were others out there like me.
Cheree`, yep, there are tons of us. I’ve been working on this for a long time. The thing that’s helped me most recently is that I had to learn to stop calling him/her a “child”. Please let me be the first to say “She’s an adult”. It took dozens of times of people telling me that, but finally it took. Do with this what you will…
I have a 25 year old that still lives at home and does drugs. I have put her in rehab many times and it has been very costly and still to no avail. She is verbally abusive to me and threaten to kill herself all the time when she does not get her way. I love her so much and I dont ever want anything to happen to her but I dont know what to do. I recently made her move out ( 2 days ago) because she lost yet another job because she was on drus at work. Now she tells me if I dont let her come back home she will kill herself. I have been going through this for 8 years now and I can not take anymore. I am worn out!!!! Any help? Please!!!!
If anyone wishes to join, there is a FB page, called “The Addict’s Mom” – not that dad’s don’t have issues too, but women seem to reach out more for community. If you locate the group on FB, just ask to join and you’ll find 2200 other moms addressing the same battles, and supporting or asking for support from each other.
I am one of these adult children. unfortunatly we have had to move in wth my parents. I am so ashamed we were doing good till my husband quit his job and i got my hours cut at work i got so behind on rent that we got kicked out with 2 kids and one on the way. i really want to do adoption but my family won’t let me. i spend 2 hundred on just children and gas for work every 2 weeks. i also have to pay all my husbands bills and the ones i have before we got married now. we buy food and stuff and i help watch my mom who falls quite often and has really bad sugar and sometimes needs someone here to watch her. my dad stays gone most of the time drving a truck so many times before i have had to use the last bit of gas to drive all the way down here to just check on her to make sure she hasnt died. i am really ashamed of what has happened i have thought of divorce but then id need a babysitter because i would not use my mom as one like my sister does. and that would add to the bills i have to pay already but then i wouldnt have to support my husbands smoking habit anymore either which would probably be a slight difference in finances. i neer buy my self anything. my mom made me let her buy me some clothes becaause all mine are not fitting me but i’ll wear them anyways. i told her no and she did it anyways. i have also offered to pay for their internet service and phone and electric bill but they will not take my money from me no matter what and if they do they do not use it but just put it away and save it for me instead of using it for bills. i really want to be out of this mess and live on my own again but it cant happen if my husband doesnt take responsability too. its almost like being a single mother but having a free nannie who’s bills and habits i pay for. and i am only 21. but i would like to say sorry for people like me. i am a discrace to mankind and really deserve to be on the street, if i didnt have kids i would be because i am so ashamed asking for help like this i normally wouldnt even do it. but i have to do whats best for my kids and my parents wont let us live on street no matter how much i tell them i dont need help they always do something nice. and im am ashamed and sorry.
need help in finding help/ group therapy for myselfcan anyone help me?
It’s a shame that my sister who is in her ’40′s continually acts like she is poor when there are things she needs to spend money on such as her mortgage, a new roof, utilities and her kid’s welfare. And my parents are there to dole out the money “because her ex- hasn’t paid child support in the last 3 years”. Since when are the non-actions of the deadbeat dad my elderly parents’ responsibility?
I have lost track of the number of times my parents have given my sister money so her gas/electric bill aren’t turned off because they feel so bad for their grandkid whom they don’t want to suffer. My sister needs to file for bankruptcy so she can finally hit bottom and work her way out of debt again.
About once a year my parents will send me a check in the amount of the money they’ve given her to assuage their guilt for enabling her childish actions. I tear it up and mail it back with an admonishing note that I am insulted they would think I need their money. I am almost 50, widowed with a college age child and never once asked for or would even think of asking for their help. The money I make is plenty to cover my expenses and I don’t spend on things I don’t need. There were times money was tight due to the emergencies and then I did what many people do, I got a second job in the evenings and cut back on anything that wasn’t a necessity.
Anyone I date has to be financially solid and responsible. Men who still live with their parents or are looking for a handout do not get a second date.
Here’s my story: I have a 22 year old son that has stressed me so much. My husband recently retired from the military, and we decided to make our home in Washington, state, and yes without our eldest son. When we left Connecticut, he had a job, a place to live (before we left he said that he would get another job, well he didn’t). He lost his job because he was late a lot, and his place to live (he wouldn’t pay his rent). He constantly called me regarding his situation; I buckled and now he’s here with us. I thought that after being homeless (sleeping on his friends sofa) for 6 months, he would’ve changed. His step-dad and I made it clear that he must continue the process of going in the Merchant marine (process started in Connecticut); all he needed was 3 references; he would not ask for references. We told him that he had to live somewhereelse; we’ve given him 1 and a half month. He can’t rent an apartment because he still owes for a place in CT, so he has to rent a room from someone. He sabotages everything, and I’m so tired of it. I sent him to job corp, and he did get his GED, but he didn’t finish the program because he was caught smoking Marijuana. Please help me not feel guilty for having him leave. He’s rude and disrepectful. I know that it’s the right thing to do.
These articles on enabling have been great to read. I have two adult children and one of them recently hit bottom with alcohol. The other is fine and both of them were raised to take care of themselves. They have been out on their own working and having apartments/homes since their early 20′s. My son is an alcoholic and has been on and off the wagon and recently I took him in so he could get sober and go to meetings and get caught up with his park rent and taxes. He is using my car to get to meetings and doesn’t have one since his accident. He is over a month sober and going to daily meetings and then work. I was happy to see him sober but not so happy about taking care of him. He just works and goes to meetings but does not pitch in at my house at all. I was torn thinking that sobriety would fix that but it has come to a head. He also has not been paying down his back taxes and bought an Ipod and music to down load and video games instead! I am worried he is getting too comfortable here and his not pitching in is wearing me out. I’m disabled with Fibromyalgia and Osteo Arthritis and work two jobs. Coming home to dishes in the sink and the house a mess is more then I can handle. I knew I was a co-dependent when I went to his house and put out 5 bags of trash and hundreds of beer cans because he wouldn’t. His house is gross and he hasn’t cleaned it in a long time. He just drank and went to work but got behind on his rent and taxes until an eviction notice was on his door. He just gave up. I was happy to help him but he needs to pay off his taxes and then move back into his home. If he wants to live that way sober it is up to him and not my decision. If he picks up a drink over it that is his decision, not mine. I personally don’t think he is up to owning his own home and he may have to lose it and get an apartment. Some people are just not motivated to take care of themselves. He used to be and now he is sober and still not helping to pick up his or my home. He prefers to watch tv and play online rather than clean. I told him this week he has to hand over his paycheck so I can go pay his taxes off and put him on an allowance until he is caught up. He can’t stay here indefinately. If he falls again I will just have to let him and that is hard for a parent to watch. I am going to try and get him to look into therapy and see if it helps? He has depression and is on anti depressants. I also told him he has to start picking up after himself. Codependency is just avoiding the reality that is staring you right in the face. My son is an adult who doesn’t want to grow up and take responsibility. He makes enough money and has the tools but is just too lazy to use them.
I have been a really spoiled child… in a way, I feel like my circumstances have been unique: I’ve always been rural, homeschooled, simultaneously taught that I was superior while being closely helicoptered by my father. I’ve come to realize that he has worked so hard to cushion me from failure, and has been so afraid of losing his importance in my life *and making a few personal sacrifices of time*, that behavior has largely kept me from being able to get a job..or make many friends..most of those keystones.
I understand much of this is me too, what I do with what I was taught…but as I get older, I come to understand the extent of the “spoilage”. It is going to be a long, difficult entrance into proper adulthood…
It’s tough to know when to stop giving. We try to follow what the bible says. We have a 19 year old daughter who is involved with a 34 year old man. We have not been happy with this relationship and now we have a 7 month old grandson. Our daughter has asked numerous of times for money, for her rent to be paid, for stuff for the baby, and so on, it is hard to know when to stop giving money. We never give cash, because we want to make sure the money is being spent the way it was intended. We know she needs to learn to stand on her own two feet, however it is more difficult now that there is a baby, our grandson involved. Also the fact this grown man should be, along with our daughter supporting themselves. Then after giving the money we sometimes don’t hear from her for at least a month. It is heartbreaking, we did not raise our daughter this way. She did have goals & dreams and now she settles for the bare minimum.
Hi Lin,
After reading the “concerned” comment, I have a question. I have a few friends in the same positon. Its one thing to let the child stand on his own but your own small granchld? I think I would have a hard time also. How do you do that without an immense feeling of guilt, desertion and emptiness? Just wanted to get your opinion.
What I want to know is how to get an enabling parent to realize they are not doing their child any favors. My boyfriend has a verbally abusive, mooch of a daughter, who has no job and parties all the time. The only thing she contributes to the house is misery and a heavy cloud since he worries about upsetting her. She relies on her looks and “plays” anyone she can to get what she wants. He likes to talk tough and says he has rules and she has to follow them, but when it comes down to any consequences, there are none. All she has to do is bat her brown eyes at her daddy and he is weak. I try to help him, but he says if I can’t deal with her, then I am the one with the problem. Guess it is time for me to leave this relationship, but what, if any, advice can I give him.
Well, J, I am sort of in a similar situation. My husband has one daughter who is just gifted… couldn’t ask for more. But the other one ended up with my own daughter’s ex boyfriend, a former drug dealer and felon, and he supports them in an apartment though neither of them have jobs. And all she has to do is throw a temper tantrum and he gets that checkbook out. Since I expressed unhappiness over that, they do all transactions in secret now and she doesn’t speak to me. My husband doesn’t even try to talk tough! And like you, if I can’t deal with her, I’m the one with the problem. I am not leaving my husband. I love him and I know he loves me. But at some point, we’re going to have words over this enablement of this daughter. And the way I’ve enabled my own over the years.
And these kids don’t seem to be able to remember anyone’s birthday’s but their own, or Christmas. I don’t care so much about the gift but anyone can write a letter telling someone how much they mean to them. Hey, I guess they are just telling me that gifts really aren’t that important… if they don’t give them, I don’t either. I don’t want them to feel pressured and I don’t want to have unrealistic expectations. Simple as that.
Good luck… your partner is in for a long period of manipulation and perhaps it’s best he learns his lesson first hand, the hard way. Hopefully he’ll figure it out sooner than later.
I have a sister who fits this exact description: wears only designer clothes & shoes, always getting hair and nails done, always going out to eat at nice restaurants; yet is ALWAYS complaining of how she’s always broke. She quit asking me for money b/c I told her exactly why she never has any money and how she can fix it.
I admit right now that I’ve been enabling my 5 kids for quite some time. I think it really started in earnest when I divorced their father and was parenting alone for a while before I remarried. I wanted my kids to have it better than I did- I came from a physically abusive home and when mom drank it could get mighty ugly. I had to work very hard at chores but was respectful, didn’t talk back, and did fairly well in school. I left home about a week after I graduated high school, worked at a farm over the summer, and then got my own apartment after getting a job. I had to walk the 2 and a half miles to work every day I was scheduled in all kinds of weather, but that’s just the way it was. I moved to another state with the expectation my dad would put me through school but I ended up doing that on my own as well. I had excellent grades and graduated nursing school with honors. It was a tough path but I did it. I worked at a rather difficult job but grew to love it and when I began to have children of my own, i hoped I could make their lives easier than mine.
The early years were easy. We indulged our children in sports, vacations (something I’d had very little experience with!), cool clothing and toys, things I didn’t have growing up. We decided that chores were reasonable but certainly nothing like what I’d been expected to do around the farm. As the kids got older, it became more difficult to get them to cooperate without an argument. I was horrified when my oldest ran away from home and began doing poorly in school. He’d fallen in with a bunch of rowdy kids and he was influencing his younger brother to behave in a similar fashion.
My husband and I began having our own problems and when we finally divorced it gave my kids fertile ground for manipulation on both sides. I tried not to trash their dad but it didn’t always go the other way so well. Back talk became more common and finally I had to come up with some limits.
I wouldn’t tolerate being told to shut up, open defiance, hitting, or swearing at me. And I also said four things were required to live here- love, humility, respect, and gratitude. And if they had a problem with any of those to come see me for an explanation.
As the older boys left home, they found themselves in trouble with finances. I helped them buy their first cars, let them go onto my auto insurance, signed for cell phones that I had to take ownership of due to their lack of payment. I let one come back home whenever his relationship crashed with his girlfriend but it got to be a pattern. He was in and out of here several times a year and wasn’t easy to live with either. The next oldest stayed with his dad for a while and then ended up on the streets, homeless. I brought him here after watching him struggle hard. He went to job corps and then into the Army.
But my biggest surprise was my middle daughter. She was so smart in high school, a star at everything she tried- sports, dance, horses, academics. She got a scholarship for college but seemed a little detached. She became secretive about her grades and though she left here every day for classes I was stunned that at the end of the year she had a GPA of 0.0. I didn’t think that was possible. It was. She wanted me to pay for the next year at a community college but I told her that was on her. I wouldn’t spend a penny on her education until she showed me some grades. She unfortunately took out a student loan, never bought her books despite a full time job -she wanted ME to pay for them- and just stopped going. Sadly, the loans still had to be paid. She got engaged shortly after that and before we knew it, she was expecting. The wedding was lavish by our standards. It was what she called the perfect wedding and it cost both sets of parents quite a bit of money. Well, it only lasted 5 months. She moved out and spent her savings on new furniture despite warnings to save for a rainy day. Sure enough, a few months went by and she was in big trouble financially. I LOANED her money and we made a reasonable payment plan. I got two payments under pressure and those were given reluctantly. Suddenly she didn’t want me around, didn’t visit, and sure didn’t want to talk about money. If fact the only time I heard from her was when she was in trouble financially.
But it was always so dire! If I didn’t make that car payment, they were going to repossess her car, she wouldn’t be able to work, and it would be my fault for letting her lose her job. Or it was the car insurance payment, or the rent. Finally I said I just couldn’t give her any more money, that I had other kids that needed help. And I did.
The second oldest daughter was here for a while, no intention of going to school but wasn’t happy about the rule… if you’re in school, no board. But if you’re not, you have to pay a small amount of board. It was like pullling teeth to get her to pay her share. And I was a witch for asking my own child for money! When she left and got into trouble with hard drugs, I was heartbroken. I couldn’t do anything because she was of age. Thankfully, her dealer/boyfriend got arrested and went to prison and she went to rehab, and then I brought her here. I fixed the car I gave her after they’d wrecked it. I got her license/insurance/registration all squared away, supported her while she found a job… and then she lost it. Her wealthy friend partied with her every day for months while I begged her to get work. I fixed the car one more time and again she let it fall into disrepair. Too busy buying clothes and having a good time to take care of business. And then she moved out because the rules here were just too much.
Meanwhile, my youngest son watched all this going on and believe me, this is only the tip of the iceberg!
My older daughter has bounced checks to me, tricked me into paying her rent, and has even gotten her friends to bail her out of jams. She took me to task for not handing over my inheritance from my dad to my kids. And they were all so critical when I bought the truck and trailer for my horses that I’d wanted for 8 years… couldn’t understand why I’d spend so much on myself when I could see they were struggling.
And my oldest son kept moving in and out of here like I had a revolving door in the living room. Always in a crisis mode, lost jobs, cars, and no motivation to go back and get any vocational training. And despite my best advice he would go back to the poison relationship that just kept him on edge. He eventually got into drugs and then I drew a line… no more in and out of the house after we had to do CPR on him one horrible day.
My second oldest son came back from Iraq in distress… all kinds of issues living in Texas. Got married for all the wrong reasons and when it went bad, it went real bad. All he wanted was for me to come get him, bring him here, and all would be well. He’d only be here 3 weeks. Yup… turned into 3 years. Finally the house rules were too much and he got in with some friends and has been doing much better.
But now my youngest is really testing me….He’s 19, almost 20. he’s a type one diabetic and needs to be on his dad’s insurance for now. He’s never had a job, has every toy you can think of- nice guitar, does drum corp all summer, has been to Disney twice (I’ve never been once!) a car I paid for, and did the unthinkable… He ‘forgot’ to get his paperwork in on time so instead of student loans, I had to pay his college tuition out of pocket- something that really hurt. And then basically flunked out. He insists he did alright because with a D+ they give you credit. I’d be ashamed to show those grades to anyone. He’s not impaired, just lazy. But he is now telling me to ‘chill’ all the time because I said it’s time to get a job, a real job, not helping the high school marching band temporarily, but he did get a certification as a nursing assistant and I want him to use it. He can’t be bothered by multiple applications and can’t I see his passion for music??? He tells me I confuse him because I call myself a Christian yet act like such a b*$%h. That I need to relax and get off his case. His room hasn’t been clean in months, and he will wear dirty clothes if he must. It’s all I can do to get him to help with the horses at feeding time.
So what’s my problem? I’m afraid if I don’t take care of him, something awful with happen with the diabetes. With my daughter, I’m afraid my grandchildren will suffer if she really does lose her job because her car gets repossessed. My oldest son has burned all bridges here and is about to move to another state to restart with his biological father. yet at 33, I’m worried about his daughters, both will stay with a mom that’s into drugs. I said his first priority was getting his life in order so he can prepare to get custody of his girls.
I am trying hard to close the bank of mom and dad yet my husband enables one of his daughters as well. I need a good pep talk. Help!
OMG! All your comments are really hard to read for me as I can relate to your pain.
I’m a 56 year old parent of a 30 and 24 year old adult men. They have two kids each when they really didn’t learn how to take care of themselves first. My feelings in all the drama irresponsibility brings can only be very painful as I watch life unfold for them as for many of yours as your relate your stories. However, I know we can do better as a community or country. And beleive it or not these problems were known even back in the stone ages, but they were not as prevalent as today for very obvious reasons.
There is a paramount flaw in this picture and regardless of what we do as parents we will always struggle our way to nowhereland. The main problem as I see it is our culture, and I will explain. I have been trying to raise one of mine by doing what I can in explaining how things work, and it doesn’t help because he always finds a financial institution that will lend him money regardless of his past financial caotic life(let me say that he has always worked since he turned 16 and he is an armed foces veteran, he is no lazy bum, but still you can be whatever, but never get to be well rounded in this culture). So, althought he never says it, I know his subconcious does not care about behaving responsibly. And yes, he still feels we will never let him down. The money to do the destructive moves, however, always comes from our culture of our financial bottomless pit. Unless we fix that our kids will always overlook our parental conservative advice and will do what comes easier.
I’m just touching on some small points, but there are a lot more affecting this cultural behavior. I’m not an enabler although I have been forced to act as one because of the circumstances. What I’m simply saying is that some of this stuff that is happening to us it is not our kids’ fault alone, but eventually and inevitably they(and whether we like it or not, we are involved) will have to pay the price.
I sympathized with all the good parents out there and wish you the best. I pray that our kids see the light and grow up to eventually be responsible adults, and that we can stop this vicious cycle affecting our culture. You can apply all the advice you are given as I have, but sometime the disease is more powerful than the medication, and unless you haven’t look in today’s culture ignorance outnumbers conservatism, education and self-reliance.
We got problems and we cannot continue talking our way around it. We are all paying dearly for this mad, out of control behavior. Just to blaming our kids for all of it is very irresponsible.
Some of it can be handled the old fashion way, but we are dealing with a bigger picture. I feel a victim of our financial system in many ways and, yes, I blame our financial system for enabling my son’s behavior and delaying or minizing the effect of whatever good we can teach our kids at home.
Wish the best to all of you.
The first thing I see that hits me the wrong way – ‘adult children’. Huh ? You mean: adult daughter or adult son ! We must think of them as.. ‘people’ – adults. Thinking of them as ‘children’ seems to be a big step towards enabling !
I’m very well acquainted with how these.. people will use me. Take that step first. Think of your adult offspring as what they are, what other adult people see them as – another person ! Yes – that is your daughter ! Yes ! BUT – she is an adult woman. And so is your grown-up son. He is a responsible adult man. If he commits a crime, the police won’t think: ‘Gee, that is an adult child !’ Nope. That is reality.
Hope this helps someone.
So here’s one for you! I have a 24 year old son with a 9 year old son. Son is irresponsible and still acts like he’s 14. He has to be told to clean up after himself as we’ll as his son. My grandson is there every weekend + because mother is irresponsible as well but she’s married and has a litter of more children. My son doesn’t understand that his actions have an effect on everyone in the family. His son is moderately disabled and depends greatly on me for most of his care. He doesn’t like his father and is extremely angry with him! Now my son is about to lose his job of three years albeit part time but none the less a job because he’s wait for it wait for it IRRESPONSIBLE? It’s getting very uncomfortable in between this rock and hard place. I swear I’m going to run away and let the cards fall where they may! If I say anything to him I’m against him and I don’t care about him! This is not how he was raised but his oh woe is me attitude because he was a teenage father is truly weighing on me!
I have two grown sons and they are destroying our marriag of 34 years. They are ruining are finacial retirement and the resentment I feel towards my husband are getting worse. He gives them down payments for cars and money for problems and then gave one of our sons money for a bussiness venture out of our hQ. He made a profit last year and instead of paying us back some,,bought some property. He pays nothing back to us and my husband and I work for free to help him..but i refuse to since he moved into a expensive apt and bought furniture..etc. My husband yells at me that I am selfish..but there is not much money left. My kids act like we owe them the world and why should they have to struggle like us to support them when they were children. I am thinking of leaving my husband because the fights have gotten so bad. The office is in my home which is treated like a flop house and they are always eating me out of house and home. but yet my husband complains about the food costs. I don’t want my children to hate me but enough is enough…One is in his mid 20′s and the other is in his early 30′s. I am begining to depise both of them for not standing on their own two feet. Now my husband wants to envolve our son in our bussiness besides..and he of course expects it. My husband says he can’t abandon him and I say let him have his life. Neither of them offer to help us around the house and all I hear is i can’t afford to hire a secretary and a office and all the bill. The only thing he pays is the cable bill. Big Deal. yes i sound bitter because my husband and I are in our 50′s and I just can’t stand the most of the decisions are made behind my back..finding out later as usual. My kids and my husband make fun of me and when i make a point about all of this they laugh at me and put me down. I thought a marriage was between a husband and wife…my husband tells them everything i say and calls me crazy. What would you do?
Hi, Dora. I feel so badly for you. Being married to an enabler is so difficult. It is the most difficult situation I can think of because the enabler doesn’t believe he is doing anything wrong, and is destroying a relationship that is supposed to last a lifetime (long after the “kids” are gone). He probably wants to be buddies with his sons and wants them to love him so he gives too much. He may also think that by giving them everything they want, he is being a “good” father. My husband does this for his sons (not mine) out of guilt and also wants to “show” his love. They were angry with him for many years and treated him like garbage. I think he’s afraid they won’t keep in touch with him if he doesn’t keep on giving. I am very afraid we will run out of assets before it’s over. A fear that many of us have because of the enablers in our lives.
Whatever you decide to do, just remember you aren’t alone and have a community here so you can “let it all out” anytime you need to do so. Our prayers go with you.
Hi Dora,
What a crazy situation you’re dealing with! I can definitely understand why you sound bitter. I would be angry and bitter too. You’ve obviously got an enabler for a husband and the “kids” are loving it – while it’s tearing apart your marriage.
What would I do? Hmm.
Personally speaking, this is something I wouldn’t put up with. At. All. I get real tough on enabling, because the grown, adult children are harmed by it and the parents end up penniless themselves if it’s not stopped.
I would make crystal clear to the hubby that what has been going on is not acceptable and you want no part of it anymore. No if, and’s or but’s about it – point blank…and to the point. No more. I would tell him his treatment and discussing/riduculing/laughing at you with your own children is disrespectful and emotionally abusive to you. Not to be tolerated. Totally unacceptable.
If this exact situation were happening to me, would I file for divorce? Probably.
I would first find out from a divorce attorney what legal options there are pertaining to legal separation for a time + how to protect myself financially during a separation (so I wouldn’t be held financially liable for debts/bills incurred during separation) until emotions (bitterness) were calmed down enough to make sure the decision to divorce was what I really wanted/needed to do. For me.
IF it were me Dora, I wouldn’t put up with this sort of treatment at all. Life’s too short to be a wife who is ignored, not consulted or included in decisions, humiliated and ridiculed to others. Your husband’s interpretation of what marriage includes is questionable (in my mind), considering how he’s treating you.
I would suggest telling your husband with no uncertain terms exactly how you feel (not in earshot of the kids of course). His reaction to what you tell him will very likely tell you everything you need to know and will go far in helping you decide whether to stay or go. Marriage counseling???
It is imperative that you leave, this is abuse,mentally, emotionally and financially. You will go to an early grave. But you must leave smartly. That is, you must plan for it. Take money out of the bank account and hide it. Sell any non-essential property (land or otherwise). Then get a lawyer to help you. It is very important that you tell no one until the court date is set for a legal separation or divorce if that is something you can do.
Hi. Does anyone know how I could get some help in dealing with my emotions regarding my 43 year old son and his behavior? I know (or believe, at least) that if nothing else, I did teach or instill in him the difference between right and wrong (even if his childhood was as bad as he chooses to remember it as).
He has fathered–and left to raise themselves–three beautiful boys. The oldest (20), I’ve only just met for the first time. My son is and always has been very self-absorbed. I have no husband or other children, so I’m aging by myself. I’m 66.
I haven’t even seen him in over 4 years last Christmas, and the last time we were together, it was a debaucle; an absolute nightmare. Yes, he is a bully. We communicate, but I don’t believe a word he says. He’s a liar, thief, manipulator who shows no respect for me at all. He has no compunction at all about using vulgar language when we speak occasionally; I used to use it too. But he knows I’ve become a Christian now, and seems like he just does it to show me that he has no respect for me–or God although he claims to be a believer. But neither his words nor his actions would bear that out.
He recently stole from his own nephew, and has stolen from family members and others for as long as I can remember. He doesn’t work, he just mooches off people while (still after 18 years) halfheartedly trying to make it in the music business. He’s been telling me his whole life that he didn’t ask to be born. He told me at 12 that he never planned on working, as he planned to be “discovered”.
I find myself with a lot of residual resentment, even though I forgive. Next month I’m sending him a cremation urn for my future use and then I’m done. I want a divorce! I’m doing that because it will not get done otherwise, but yeah, I’m done after that. His life is completely messed up and he takes no responsibility for choices he made/makes. He has blown through every dollar he gets his hands on, and doesn’t share any financial information with me. For example, if anything happened to him, I have no idea how to access his account(s?); I don’t even know his attorney’s name, let alone phone number. He has no sense of financial responsibility and just lives day to day.
The question is: What can I do to stop feeling angry, resentful, guilty and disappointed in his behavior? How can I stop holding on to false hope? Is there a support group for something like this?
I could sure use some feedback here. 20 year old daughter moved across country to the West Coast with boyfriend, but left a mess behind her financially as well as pets behind for us to deal with. She took a car that we have co-signed on, and due to other circumstances going on (a very ill father) I completely forgot that the car was still registered to us and the car insurance is in our name. We have asked her for weeks to get the car re-registered in her name and the insurance in her name. She has already gotten a speeding ticket that came to our house because the car is registered to us. Before all of this occurred, she was living in an apt.on the East Coast paying her bills and doing fine. She had moved out of our home because she could not get along with her father, treated him with disrespect, would not obey house rules, keep things clean, etc. It was no fun living with her. One week after she moved, the boyfriend shoved her up against a wall. She called the police and She left for about 2 weeks and stayed with a family member. Then she went back. Now he has hit her, drawn blood. She is calling wanting to come home. I told her to go to a shelter, go to a church and ask for help, see if someone she works with will let her stay. She only wants to come home. We do not want her living with us anymore. On top of it all, she has not paid her car payments or insurance for 3 months, to the tune of over $1000 out of my pocket. If I go and take the car away, it will mean I have to spend a ton of money flying out there, then driving it across the country. If I don’t, we have to keep up with the payments since the car is in our name. Or we can just pay the car off, chalk it up to a really bad judgement call to sign for her, and cancel the registration and insurance on it. Then if she does not pay, she will get fined for driving an unregistered and uninsured car. If we rescue her, will she ever find within herself what she needs to do this on her own? I have told her she has to figure it out and if she is still with him, then she must not be desperate enough yet. She does not want to be uncomfortable by living in a shelter or sleeping on someone’s couch, she just wants to make it all go away and come home I am sure. And then what if he follows her and brings her crap to our house? I love her, but I think she has to do this on her own. She is not stupid. I have a family member who is only 6 hours away who has offered before to let her live there, but she did not like his house nor the area. I say she goes there, works and saves like crazy, pays him some rent, pays me back, and then when she has enough money saved, she can move wherever she likes. I am worried sick about her safety, but if she is not willing to get out no matter what, then I don’t think she is that desperate. Opinions, please???
What do I do with an adult child 38 years that won’t pay her rent to us and won’t move out? I sent a registered eviction letter to her giving her 30 days to get out. She sent back the letter unopened. She is still living in the house. Her husband and 4 children occupy the house with her. They have 4 dogs in the house and the house is kept a mess. They refuse to work and pay their rent. They are 10 months late on the rent. Does anyone have any advice? Has anyone been is this position and could tell me what worked for them? Thanks. PM Tennessee
I see a few things in these comments
that bother me–and I daresay this due to one of the insights I will cite–
as one of these “grown-children”–a man child you all love to downgrade and hate–though, like My own mother says “I love you but I just don’t like you”…which isn’t a loving thing to tell your child (or even tell to your friends/co-workers/relatives), period. But you know that, though you’ll deny it, your heart knows. Even if I felt that I would not say it to my child. Thats where LOVE comes in.
One is the inability for parents to really, truly, genuinely accept that we did not in fact, ask to be born. It was your choice to make love to whom you did, it was your decision to have us, and it was your decision to keep us as supposed to say putting us up for adoption. This is not being ungrateful for life–but life does suck. And this era is on a cusp as far as human evolution/development goes, so its potentially the worst and best for anyone to grow up in.
That being said, everything after that was on you. Or your spouse, or both. Just like a lot of you who speak about how your grown-children WITH children tend to behave irresponsibly, a lot of you have not been as attentive as you should’ve. And therefore if your child resembles a “brat”, guess what, that’s what your particular style of parenting has raised.
And this is a funny thing because, in the realm–the school of thought of “tough love” everyone tries to assume that a one-size-fits-all method goes to raising children. if this was so, all the methods used would yield the same results. They dont. You can’t raise your sons like you did you daughters–you just can’t. And you cant expect a child who grew up without one parent or the other to turn out similar to those who have both. We KNOW this. Why are you denying it?
Of course I can hear the groans, and scoffs right now. “He’s defending himself”. You bet I am.
I’m a response to a lack and lacks. I’m a result of Entropy–a lack of order.
I’m also the result of an abusive, traumatic childhood.
What bothers me the most, about it all, is not what you say
but the sheer attitude of “YOU DID THIS” “YOU ALL DID THIS”–and “LOOK WHAT YOU DID TO ME WHILE BEING LIKE YOU ARE”
Of course I’m embittered, but so are you all for what you yourselves may have done or failed to do and the opposite and equal reaction(s) that occurred due to them(it).
To be honest, sometimes my heart wilts for my mother. I know I’ve been difficult. I’m not in denial.
hah, ironically though, save for staying out past curfew sometimes and smoking some bud (which to drive my point to home, I started smoking since I was an extremely depressed teen and my mother refused to let me get on medication..and I wish I was making this up), I was a pretty good kid.I always had decent grades, I wasn’t into gangs and I respected my teachers and vice versa–they loved me, in fact. At the same time I can see the times where she wallowed and sat with her head in her hands or just didn’t care and put the blame on me–she wasn’t doing any parenting at all.
Being un-equipped with certain adaptive adult-like mindsets is a condition that I did not foster within MYSELF. And if I did, I did not do so knowingly–because I was a neglected child. A CHILD who does not know any better! And neither do their stupid friends! You’ve put the weight of a sense of responsibility that a knowing adult possesses on the shoulders of children–children who were not taught how to grow up. Children who are hurt and angry now because the whole world is blaming them where they themselves have no fault–at least not in the sinister manner you’re all portraying.
And sure. A ton of us are manipulative, irresponsible, and any number of things an adult is -not- supposed to be
(yet so many actually are–under a veil) Yet Frankenstein did put himself together, now did he? Nor did he ask to be created and born as the grotesque thing he was.
As a “man-child” who grew up with an abusive single mother who is mentally ill, I can say not all of the posters here are the faultless hell-or-high-water I’ll-protect-my-child parents you’re trying to put across. Some of you have, even if not regularly, but in intervals subjected your children to the neglect, abuse, and trauma that distorts one’s mind. The kind of stuff that creates criminals and addicts.
This isn’t a dog and pony show. this is real. these disappointing beings are your kids–yours, not someone else’s product. they’re also human beings who probably have a really hard time managing even their own emotions, let alone their lives.
Some of you haven’t.
I was not one of the kids you all seem to have. Lots of us aren’t, even without extreme examples of abuse.
The constant hand-outs, exorbitant loans. Hell, growing up, my parents both hardly gave me what I wanted
(I didn’t even celebrate holidays, including my birthday)–let alone cared about the development of myself as a well-rounded adult. The main thing they cared about is if I gave a good answer and made them look good at sunday school. I was not coddled or spoiled, nor did I get what I want. In fact, since my father was an extremely frugal (cheapskate) man from the West Indies, I got hardly what I -needed- aside from food and shelter, which I know most of you think is exactly what
a parent does: they’re a handler.
There is also this is a dynamic I see a lot when it comes to stuff like this, that the people who are already knee-deep in a neglectful parenting mode will go way out into left field. And especially because I remember people had always been trying to convince my mother I was “spoiled” when in fact, she knew in her heart, and later ADMITTED–but only to me since I’m “nobody”–relatives who regularly bought their children name-brand clothing and video games where my parents wouldn’t even allow me to watch Television and my shoes were payless (I should mention my parents are Jehovah’s Witnesses)—and she would, in turn amp up her inconsistencies or abusive patterns I should say.
I know what happened, I can look back on instances and see where it wasn’t normal that I didn’t know this or that and other kids did. If by “spoiled” they meant “ruined” they were right. And I can see it in my head as since I spent a lot of time alone as a kid my imagination is pretty expansive–and I also know my mom very well. She’s standing there contorting her mouth with mock-unsureness while they say this, and half-acknowledging to herself that they’re wrong. She thinks:
“I don’t really give him -whatever- he wants. him crying or throwing tantrums don’t get him anything either. the truth is, I don’t think I know to and/or want to raise a son.” Actually I overheard these conversations as a kid and in so many words she refuted them saying I wasn’t spoiled…which was true. But it took her two more decades and a few years to actually admit (to herself and possibly to me) what the problem actually was.
It hurts. It makes me mad, beyond words. I’m being told:
“hey, you F up, why don’t you know how to do [this], why aren’t you doing [that]? you stupid, or just a loser? or both?”
Not just from your generation, but MY OWN peers. And that makes it, to me, very very hard to really keep going when I’m trying to repair, ON MY OWN the first half of my life which my mother cheated me out of fully experiencing as a growing human.
It makes it seem totally -not- worth it.
because I really don’t want to be “successful” in such a heartless place. and you can all say what I know you will. Something about excuses, something about my “getting over”. I’ve barely gotten by, in life. Most times not even that. I’ve all to often lived -without- the bare necessities and even things for comfort.
And I can even say, if you conclude (as your talking points are all the same) that I’m manipulating:
Maybe I am. But maybe I’m only manipulating you into seeing something you are unwilling to see. Not all manipulation is negative. You folks manipulate people, too. What do you call the social dynamics we currently engage in?
but the cycle goes on. And I hope a lot of you are patting yourselves on the back. because you all win…you’re all validated. you’ve got credentials, whereas we: the lost slighted children, don’t.
we’re just the chemistry set in the rubbish bin.
Thanks for the advice..i guess i already knew what i had to do..i just needed another voice to help me. I made a copy of my comment and yours and gave it to my husband. He won’t talk to me without yelling so i put it in letter form and wrote a letter to my younger son. He has made sure i have no friends and discourages contact with my family..so you are the only one i can talk to. My kids are loving the situaton while they see how it is slowly killing me inside. Again thank you, I will let you know what happens. dora
also thanks for your comment and concern. At my age i thought life would get better..or atleast i hoped so. Just waiting for my husband to comment or he will just ignore it like me. I pray too, Dora
Well I waited a few days and everything blew up.I was called some horribe names and i was told i was the c word i was told to get a job because he had things to do at the site and didn’t want me to go out but to answer the phones. I am so tired…the hate in his voice is pulling me apart. He is so mean and spiteful towards me..and he says he can’t live without me..but then says i a useless. I know what i have to do..it’s just getting the courage to follow through..i did however get a few good ones in..like i am not your b and I was tired of him thinking he was king of the hill…and i was tired of being walked on and treated like crap….i finally realized..if it doesn’t benifit him i am useless to him. Dora
I’m sooo sorry Dora. I kind of wondered if this was the type of man you are married to. Mentally and emotionally abusive, with name calling and horrible things being said to you and Lord knows what else. Think for yourself: What are your Relationship Deal Breakers? Sounds to me as though you’ve already determined what you need to do. Good luck with it and be strong.
VJM, I can definitely understand your concerns for your daughter’s safety. The fact that she left her boyfriend once before makes clear she realizes there is a serious problem in the relationship; unfortunately, she went back to him.
Considering the history you have explained, it is understandable that you wouldn’t want your daughter to move back into your home. From her responses to your suggestions, she only wants what she wants and she aims to get you to agree, one way or another.
Obviously she has options, she has places she can go, homes she can live in until she is able to get a place of her own. Pay you back etc should most definitely be put at the top of the to-do list. Since there has been a history of her bad treatment towards her father while living in the home in the past, it would not be in anyone’s best interests to allow her to move back home into your house.
You’ve laid out for her some options of places she can live, pay rent etc and pay you back. She doesn’t like the options. I say too bad. Hopefully she realizes that her relationship is an abusive one and she needs to get away from this guy, but no one can force an abused girlfriend/wife etc to leave if they’re not ready mentally, emotionally etc to accept the facts.
She’s already shown you by her attitude and behavior over recent months (years?) that she wants to call the shots. Don’t let her dictate to you. The car situation is a toughie for sure and I hope you’re able to resolve that one without tremendous financial burden to you and your husband.
Seems to me that you could enlist the help of your family member a few hours away to get the car sold locally there and get out from under the payments and headache. Or perhaps the family member could “hold” the car and car keys until your daughter pays you back for past car payments and insurance, get it transferred into her name as you requested, pay her ticket etc while living with the family member (with the house she doesn’t like or area she doesn’t like)and show proof she has wised up some. Maybe not having access to the car at all would make her realize she has to step up and take care of her responsibilities and prove she should be given an opportunity to keep the car once she fulfills her responsibilities to you.
I like your suggestions and plan for her. Her not liking this or that doesn’t really matter. Her fulfilling responsibilities and obligations that go with being an adult is what matters. You’re doing fine, hang in there.
VJM- this may not even come to you in time for real help but I read you plea for it, and wonder how things turned out for you. If I’d been in your shoes I would have warned your daughter that within a reasonable period of time (you’d have to figure that out) you planned on canceling the registration and insurance on the car. It would be her responsibility to correct the situation. I know that closing the Bank of Mom was a very good move on my part. It has helped to restore my sanity.
My youngest son finally did get full time employment and when he started bucking the rules of the house, I let him know he needed to get off my insurance and get his own policy by a certain date and then he could have all the independence he wanted. This was the one with such serious diabetes. Well, shortly after he complied with my request he was hospitalized for complications of diabetes- went into acidosis and was in ICU. Why? Because he didn’t follow through with paperwork to get new supplies and was trying to ‘handle’ his condition using old insulin pens. Blew off his doctor’s appointment. This was how he handled things when he was at the same time telling me to ‘chill out’ and let him handle his life. There are consequences you see. He has since moved in with his father to be more ‘independent’- a joke because he’s still in a protected environment… I’m happy he’s not living with friends though. I had to let go. When his car needed tires I agreed to pay for them but only if he gives me the money back through weekly payments. So far, he has held up his end of the agreement. But I’ve stuck to my guns about loaning money to my other 4 kids…not kids anymore. Oldest is 33, youngest is 20.
Our house is pretty quiet now. The kids visit once in a whle, my husband is still enabling his daughter and the only time she comes here is to get money from him. As often as possible she gets him to stop by her apartment that we subsidize and give it to her there so she doesn’t face the possibility of a disapproving look from me. My husband says he has to help her so she can finish college and take care of her baby- the one she had with my other daughter’s ex-boyfriend and recovering addict. I’m happy about that part and give them a lot of credit, but it hurts her father that she won’t interact with the family, won’t come to birthday parties for other grandchildren, Christmas or Thanksgiving. But she will come for money. So sad.
I think you had a lot on your plate in 2010. Your daughter made a lot of bad choicees and you wanted to help but the more you helped the worse it got. I imagine the car situation is resolved, hopefully not replaced by another in your name. I sure hope things got better for you.
Hello PM,
Do you have an attorney? The letter needs to come from and with some legal authority. I am not familiar with landlord/tenant law in Tennessee, but I imagine that there is some sort of City or County info source and you need to access it by calling the City and/or County offices where you or she lives and tell them what is happening and how she has ignored your request. Sheriffs or Marshalls are very efficient in moving someone out if you go to Small Claims or whichever court is appropriate to the amount owed, get a judgment against her AND HIM, YOU MUST BE ALL INCLUSIVE IN THE ACTION OR HE CAN STAY THERE, and then have the Sheriff or Marshall’s officers proceed with putting their stuff on the street! It can be done.
You have to assume that she is treating you like a stranger so you must do the same to end that. That is what I would do if needed. Brace up, I know it is not easy since it is your progeny.
Noreen
I want to add something to this forum. Here is something not considered by any of the posts on this forum, including the moderator. We can pee and moan about all the stuff our children did and do to us, but what caused this dysfunctional behavior on their parts?
I think it is usually, divorce, death of a parent or sibling, something traumatic, or else these kids are mentally disabled or challenged and need more help than the average in disseminating information as to what is acceptable in society relating to treatment of parents, siblings and society in general.
Somebody failed on the teaching level. I myself was in foster homes at age 3 and then orphanage at age 4 and was in shock for most of my childhood, even after being taken into my divorced-from-my-father, mother, and given, without my choice, my stepfather’s name. I never felt welcome or loved and I had a sister who was 13 months older who experienced the same thing. She died of esophageal cancer at age 34!
I think the homelife disruption, for whatever reason, causes problems with these kids. I am not making excuses. I think it takes a great deal of patience to sort through these things and just tossing them out on the street or into jobcorps is not the answer! Their behavior is a reflection on us as parents, PERIOD. We need to examine ourselves as well.
Sorry, but I think this will generate a great deal of anger and excuses, however, get on your knees before Jesus and ask Him to reveal it, and He will.
Some people will not accept the consequences of their parenting inadequacies and blame the offspring. The man I was involved with left his family when the kids were in puberty or before and pursued his own interests. I blame him for his 40 year old son’s vagrancy and his 30 something daughter abandoning her three very young children. She had him as an example.
People, we need to realize that without God in the picture directing us and our accepting our roles of spiritual guides and directors for our children, they will grow up “like Topsy,” willful and resentful and trying to get everything they can because they did not have the proper upbringing. There, I said it, and you can all be as angry as you want to be.
Noreen
Noreen, I do understand where you’re coming from and I agree that parenting is where everything starts. That being said, there comes a time when everyone has to mature and try to accept what happened in the past and go on.
I don’t see anyone here is in denial as to how they parented and were responsible for how their children may think and act. It does come down to acceptance of the mistakes parents make, and the realization that chldren cannot keep blaming their parents forever for what has happened.
In your case, it was a horrible way to start and there are issues that don’t go away without help. How we are raised has a lot to do with how we think about ourselves and those around us when we are children. It can cause trust issues, as well.
I stil say that at the onset of adulthood, we either need to get help in dealing with our beginnings or use these lessons to make better decisions for ourselves.
My brothers and I were products of divorce in a time when very few couples were getting divorced, and there was abuse in our lives including an incident of molestation. Do I hate that person? No, even though I had trust issues that I had to resolve. Do I hate my parents? No, of course not. They just weren’t mature enough to be parents. Just because people have children doesn’t make them parents.
I think parents sometimes “over-parent” which results in enabling. They don’t realize that what they are doing is harmful untl it comes to a head years later. I DO think children use this to their advantage (from what I have lived and seen with friends, etc.). Hey, they will do what is necessary sometimes, to get what they want. Don’t you think that at some point THEY are responsible for how they turn out? It is counterproductive to live in the past and live in what I call “arrested adolescence”. Nothing in life stands still.
Enough said. Just wanted to put in my two cents.
God bless you and hope you are doing well.
Sincerely,
Betty
Hi Noreen,
There are many, many things that cause these problems for parents and their children. Your most recent reply to Betty specifically was not posted on the site but did come through by email. Perhaps you hit the “reply” button in your email instead of coming to the site directly and posting it here, so that it only came to me.
Nevertheless, it’s best that that response stay off the site, as it comes across very heavy-handed. very angry and harsh. I’ve read it and re-read it several times last night and this morning, and the harshness/anger/bitterness is just too much, especially since you ended the reply with “That’s it. Don’t want to hear about it any longer.”
Some of my responses to people are verry direct and to the point, to make them sit back a second and really think about what they’re doing. But. I will not ever use my site in such a way as to virtually slap parents upside the head with a Bible or strong religious talk, about how parents are failing their children, failing to Teach and Train children to adulthood, because (supposedly) they don’t have God or Jesus in their lives etc etc.
Based on the many many emails I receive from parents who choose not to leave comments or questions here, parents who are strong religious believers and regular church attenders (one father is a Pastor no less), it would be rather presumptuous of me to even suggest, hint or imply that parents who enable their grown children failed to raise them with Christian values, prayer and guidance etc.
Sure, I could include numerous scripture texts and scripture principles and sermon-like arguments in every Enabling article I’ve posted thus far. I choose not to. My site is not a Church or a Court, not do I sit in judgment of these parents who are struggling with being enablers or are married to enablers, as if to say the problems would be solved or would never even come up IF children were being raised with Christian values and morals etc.
Let’s keep the comments section a place where parents AND grown children (if they wish) can ask questions and share experiences in a calm, respectful manner, without anything that even gives an appearance of judging parents on their Religious/Christian beliefs or lack thereof. Anything else will be deleted.
I agree with you partially. I am going through trouble with my adult kids and realize that, in part, it is my fault. I needed to teach more about behavior and consequences. I also believe that we need the Lord in our lives to direct us.
Where I disagree is blaming parents for how we turned out for the next 40 years! A person at some point has to take responsibility for his or her actions.
My mother died when I was young and I went to live with my alcoholic father yet I always always treated both parents with the utmost in respect. I never even raised my voice to them! I didn’t use my father’s alcoholism as an excuse for my in- frequent poor behaviour.
When I was 18 I lived with my future step mother and I was not doing enough to find a job and move out. I just did fun things and partied. She kicked me out and guess what? I found a job and rented an apartment and have been living on my own since then. (I am 49 now).
Noreen, s
orry you had such a rough childhood but what you are giving these people is excuses..there is always a reason (excuse) for the bad behavior of others but an adult is supposed to be responsible for themselves.
There are no perfect parents and their children are not perfect. The parents had to learn to be responsible adults and they only way to teach your adult children to be so is to allow them to fall on their faces…no money, car, place to stay from Mom.
Once the parents say and actually follow thru, the child will either sink or swim, either way it will be a direct reflection of the child, not the parent.
I am sure that once you remove your personal family situation from this blog you can think of families you know that will show you that irresponsible adults (because we are talking about grown-ups) are the creation of themselves.
Otherwise each family with the problems discusses above will have these problems with all of their children, not just one.
Once again, I am sorry about your particular situation but if you have not gotten your life together because Mom will not let you live for free, buy you a car, and let you be disrespectful in her home, that was a choice you made…
Hi I can totally understand where your coming from your story sounds like my own. I’m also dealing with a 26 year old who quit college when she had a full ride and said she was gonna make it in the music business we do not get along because she is angry about me having her at 18 years old and doing my best to raise her on my own this all started when she was 18 hrs old and she has had us up and down since wow what a roller coaster ride my gosh I want off I am married and have two small children and we still have the 26 year not wanting to leave I feel like a prisoner in my own home she can come and go whenever she pleases never helps with the rent and eats our food it is very tiresome I wish I was different this Christmas was a disaster with the arguing and all. I’m so emotionally exhausted with all this .
Don’t give him your cremation urn… leave it with a reputable funeral home. Don’t give him any responsibility for you or your business. Sounds like you’ll only be disappointed. I have a brother who lived with my mom on and off for many years. She needed him for a drinking buddy and he needed her for her money to get him out of trouble. That seemed to be working out for them until Mom started getting forgetful and brother got into more trouble. Before long he was losing jobs, divorced, into substances, and really lost. Without Mom’s money to get out of trouble, he was forced to find new ways of coping. Sadly, he’s found a woman who loves him for exactly who he is… but she suffers now. He’s 47, has little more than the clothes on his back, and is faced with a life of hard labor and hard living.
You can’t be responsible for his behaviour. Being angry crops up as does the resentment but neither of those will help you. Al-Anon was very helpful to me. It sure made me see things in a completely different way…. and showed me the part I played in the way I felt. Good luck!
I know exhauted well. I have a 26 yr old son who basically was homeless for years and I have had custody of his daughter since she was 8 months shes going to be six. He put himself into drug treatment which I am paying for and getting more resentfull because I feel like I am paying for his bad choices. He finally went back to college so far I have paid his rent , his utilities, his food, his rehab which looks like its going to be the rest of his life. He cant keep a girlfriend because he is soooo verbally abusive and can get physical and also loves destroying property when angry however denies anger problem and says everyone else has the problem not him. I have always told him I will not give rides for socializing but to the clinic,school,work yes. But now I am wondering if I am wrong and even though the consequence would be horrible I think I have been making a mistake. I told him yesterday no more and feel like I am dieing in side. Oh yes hes very disrespectful to me when the mood hits him. Am I wrong in stopping this. I feel horrible.
More importantly, how can a parent divorce an “adult child”? (Now there’s an oxymoron for ya)!
Barbara; No, you are not wrong for stopping what on your part has been done with good intentions. So often, our adult children feel we are the cause of all that is not right in their lives. At what point do they stop blaming us? I have found that when their lives are going well, we do not even come into the equation! But, let something go wrong – and bam! it’s mom/dad’s fault.
I say that all parents who have done the very best we could – stop taking the wrap for their bad choices. So many people who have come here to this board, searching for answers, have been divorced. Well, I can tell you from experience that divORcing a personality disordered person, is one of the most ongoing, devastating things a parent of a child any age can endure. The PD parent will NEVER stop trying to punish you for divorcing him/her. They will drag the children into it and force them to choose sides. The dominating personality will win most every time, because the kids have witnessed what the other parent has gone through (and is still getting) – and doesn’t want the same treatment.
The nice parent is bullied by the horrible parent. The children align with the horrible parent. The cycle continues. The nice parent is left alone to grieve the loss – and this because he/she had the courage to stand up to the bully parent. The bully parent has now taught the children it’s okay to abuse the other parent.
I say to all parents in this situation – find a way to divorce yourself from those kind of adult children. It will be a struggle making your way through it, but you must do it for yourself. I can guaranty you that your child is NOT sitting around doing web searches to find answers as to how they can be better adult children! They only care about you when it suits them – financially, materially, etc.
We are merely a means to an end – thanks to the rotten person we chose to have children with to begin with.
Ten years ago my mother manipulated me into moving back into the house with my father and her. My father had memory loss and was physically abusive. My mother had cancer. I drove them to the hospital 27 times in one year. My mother told everyone that I refused to get a job and nobody wanted me. It was humiliating. She portrayed the situation as one where she had to help me and I was lazy. When their health stabilized, I finally left. Several years later, my mother called me in a panic to come help with my father. I ran to her side and ended up getting beat up by my father and having to commit him to a nursing home. A year later he died. My mother made me lots of promises to get me to help her in the past year since his death and began calling me on the phone every single day. I couldn’t think straight. Every thing I’ve tried to do she poisons.
She insisted I drive her across country to memorials and funerals, causing me to loose money at my job. Behind my back, she told everyone that she was supporting me because, basically, I am a loser. Now that she has my father’s money, she calls me everyday to brag about all the money she has but claims she can’t get access to it. I have gone broke trying to help her and she just tells everyone that I won’t get a decent job and that nobody likes me. Now she has taken up TOUGH LOVE and is refusing to give me a dime to keep me from going broke. Well, I am at a position of TOUGH HATE.
I WISH I HAD NEVER HELPED HER AT ALL.
SOME PEOPLE DESERVE TO BE PUT IN A DIRTY NURSING HOME.
Everything you said was spot on! I was divorced and my ex was horrible to me and didn’t even see his kids for years. But you know what? Every one of my kids but one aligned with their dad and I’m the mean one, the nasty parent because I have rules and limits. And you’re so right about them not caring what effect their lack of consideration and seeming lack of love has on me. They all thought it was wonderful when my youngest left home- a son with a serious medical condition and no sense of responsibility, no interest in taking care of paperwork or anything like it. They seem to like seeing me struggle for some weird reason, but they would never hold their dad to the same standard they do me. I don’t understand all that- I gave them the best years of my life and this is the way they treat me now. It will be worse when I’m older. Can’t even think about that.
The answer is in not expecting anything from them at all. And not giving in to demands for money either. It seemed to work for their Dad- he never helped them when they needed it and now they fight for his attention. I’m happy they’ve re-established relations with him but he’s still very capable and willing to hurt me through the kids. He’s done it over and over, and getting my youngest to move in with him was just the last jab. He’ll send him back when son’s car is wrecked or dead, when the health insurance is gone and the co-pays are very high, when the job is gone or he’s too sick to deal with. And that’s the part that hurts the most. When his kids are really down and out, he doesn’t want to deal with them. Thank you for your insight. Like I said, you were spot on.